Any living Luftwaffe pilots we can list here?

[ju55dk]

Originally Posted by John Manrho

I agree with Franek. I talked to probably around a hundred German pilots and I would say in some 3% I was turned down. Please note, none of these were the important aces or anything like that. They are sometimes harassed. I remember clearly when I visited Herbert Kutscha when he showed me piles of letters of people who just wanted a signed photo. He did not respond to any of those. At least that was what he told me.

Listing names seems to me out of the question. When you have something to say to these old veterans and that message is of interest to them, they will respond. No need to create a public hit list...

cheers,

John.

I do agree with Franek and you. My point only beeing that there is a difference in having a genuine interest in their story or only beeing after signed photoes. I also found those I have visited/corresponded with were very keen in assisting my research!!!!

Junker

[Adriano Baumgartner]

I am only a small fish on a big Ocean, but I would like to express freely my thoughts down here:
1- Regarding on the pure Historical point of view, this list could be a point of start to many young and new writers or researchers that still want to research one aspect or another that was not writen yet. So, this could be a great idea, even exposing those "old eagles" to more and more letters asking for information and photos. BUT, the veterans had their right to disregard the letters, burn them or answer them IF they feel the person is honest and want to do something positive about their information.
2- Unfortunately for us, there are people who DIG photographs and other documents to SELL them on the Internet. Those people are "criminals" not only towards the veterans, but towards most of us, who just want to obtain first hand information. They are "killing" History in my way of perception...
3- As far as I do know, NO veterans ever received a small parcel or percentage of the revenues, regarding their own contribution with historians and Military Publishers...so this could be a point of start towards a kind of retribution in regard of their memories, or families ( who often donate or loan documents and photos ). I have heard from a dozen of English pilots that they loaned particular photos to famous UK writers and never received them back!! I am still young, but I do not know what is happening to those standards of Integrity, generosity and kindness I learned when young...people only wants to make money, use the veterans archives to publish, etc....I wrote only one book so far, and as soon as I got it published, a small percentage of the revenues will go to UNICEF, because it is my way of seeing things...to ensure that what those veterans passed will not happen again. Some 30 seconds later, I saw a thread here from a famous writer saying that he has in his possession a part of a former RAF bomber. He didn´t annouce it to sell, neither intend to sell as far as I see, because there is something to honour on this part of History...perhaps he will give it to the families, or to an Aviation Museum...This is the way I see things...the character of the people who deals with those veterans´history is what of counts here...
4- I wish more writers ( and I mean those famous writers that has dozens and dozens of books published ) could create a kind of FUND for Historical research, or support any kind of Veterans Fund...I would be very happy to participate...A former Luftwaffe night-fighter ace that lives in Brazil once told they did not receive support to their meetings on Germany...They fought and are now discarded like trash...Sad to here those things...
I appologize IF any comments here are harsh, but this is the way I feel things. I do not want to create another caos or exchanging of harsh words, but this list can lead to 2 ways: a bad one and a good one...
Sincere and friendly yours
Adriano Baumgartner

[Peter Kassak]

Interesting two camps of ideas I would like to add mine...
OK it is nice if beginners have their list to start with. I also spoke to many of the veterans, Germans, Czech, Slovak, USAAF etc. Mostly they helped with joy and no objections. But I had to find them myself..and that is a lesson how to work while searching. If we make it so easy, the research of the new generation would not be based on solid ground.

And to the questions "names YES, contacts NOT". Give me your name and nationality and in the world of information, internet and globalization I can locate who you are, where do you live and what is your social security number, simply all details. So the name and the fact that the person is alive is ENOUGHT for beginning of the "hunt" for those autograph hunters.

[Mikael Olrog]

To add a third perspective... The Privacy legislation within the European Union is very protective when it comes to gathering, storing and/or processing information which can be refered to a person living within EU. It is my belief that it applies also to websites run by private persons.

Obviously the chances of being caught is minimal and I don't know for example to what extent it matters where the server or data is physically stored (within or outside EU). But if I was webmaster based within EU I would be reluctant to host that information without checking that it was legal to do so.

/Mike

[Artist]

Not that I think it is a good idea to post these names but WOW!!!!! I was very suprised at the first three replies. I am sure you guys already have signed autographs. I have some realy good contacts to many Luft pilots that where given to me by other Luft pilots. Many autograghed photos, and many of my paintings have been signed by pilots. One paintimg I sent to be autographed returned with more signatures than the one I thought it would get! Seems the person I wanted to sign it took it to a gathering of other pilots and had some other pilots sign it for me. Maybe someone should tell these pilots they do not want to be bothered by people seeking autographs and info. maybe they do not know ! Robert

[Peter Kassak]

Hmm, look at it differently. In your case they signed voluntarily. That is Okay. And they signed one item. Signature hunters keep sending stuff with requests for signing. I have experienced one discussion with veterans, where such a parasite was present...none had chance to speak with old men alone,. because this creature interrupted us and alway asked to sign some book or photo. Eben not related to the past of the veteran
I know veterans are glad to sign some photo of them from young age, but what we think here by negative posting against listing those who are still alive, is to keep em from getting a lot of "spam" mail from the same persons with requests to sign constantly a lot of items...

[ju55dk]

Originally Posted by Artist

Not that I think it is a good idea to post these names but WOW!!!!! I was very suprised at the first three replies. I am sure you guys already have signed autographs. I have some realy good contacts to many Luft pilots that where given to me by other Luft pilots. Many autograghed photos, and many of my paintings have been signed by pilots. One paintimg I sent to be autographed returned with more signatures than the one I thought it would get! Seems the person I wanted to sign it took it to a gathering of other pilots and had some other pilots sign it for me. Maybe someone should tell these pilots they do not want to be bothered by people seeking autographs and info. maybe they do not know ! Robert

I was one of the 3 first replies! I am not a collector of such items, and have never asked the veterans for such items!!!!! I do however collect their story. This is a different matter. I do know how some of the veterans are pestered by such requests. Sometimes seeing these items later sold on ebay!!!!!!!!!!!!

Junker

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Peter and Ju55dk,
You both are right on your arguments...most of us, we are not "autographs hunters", but researchers, junior or senior writers, just intending to further develop our researches and narratives; to obtain first hand accounts on some air battles or facts that ocurred a long time ago...Of course, there are a lot of well known writers who have more access to those "old veterans" because they are well known ( I mean their work is good and precise and they are trusted by the veterans themselves: Beale, Boiten, Gross, Vasco, etc...just to name some of them ). However, the next "brand" of researchers should have the same rights to try to do their work, to develop their ideas and interview the vets if possible. I remember reading about Chris Berngstron, tha he started his researches with only 14 years! ( I mean, personally contacting old hands, visiting them, etc...I started to read about WW2 with the same age, and MAN, when I read about someone like that, I feel a lot of pride and happiness for him...look at his works today, they are well know and have done a good work for History ). Resuming: a simple list of names ( only names ) will do no harm to anybody! IF the vets are willing to co-operate, they will, no matter who is writing or asking them...on the other hand, if they had enough, they will not answer...
There is NO history hidding facts...only sharing it. Of course, I have seeing personal conflicts - even between historians and other people down here - but, as someone´s motto: we are dealing with mankind...
Adriano

[ju55dk]

Hi Adriano.

I'm not trying to hinder acces by researchers to those still around. But I have to point out, that the new generation are in a way blessed, with much better acces to archives! Today you can in many cases sit at home and order copies without having to visit London or Freiburg. Also it is free for everybody to do the same as the "old hand". Do serious basic research and then go on from there. I started out in 1985 with only a little to go on. Visiting Freiburg, for the first time in 1986. Getting contacts to Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger, visiting gaterings, and then making personel contacts. From there going on to writing hundreds of letters!!!!! Also getting contacts to other researchers in different countries, helping each other with informations! This was done before the internet.
I think that others have made the same experiences! It is hard and long-time work, but it is the way to go. Many of us still have a normal job and families, doing research in our sparetime!
I have allways helped others when asked to help. But I do not react to demands.

If you are looking for someone, then post the name on this site, stating the purpose, and I'm sure you will get help!!!!!!!

Junker

[John Vasco]

Junker,

Spot on, only I started in 1983. I know of many others who had the same path in research. The greater problem for the researcher starting out today is that most of the vets we could contact and interview back in the '80s have now passed on. The plus side is that since the 1980s, a lot more books have been published on subjects across the whole Luftwaffe spectrum, so it is easier to start with a good framework on a subject. I went into the Erprobungsgruppe 210 research with the odd photo and a hell of a lot of incorrect information in published works up to that date (1983).