VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

[Evgeny Velichko]

And to finish a picture of bloodly 8 june 1943:

8 june 1943.

2 air raids of 15 VA and 1 VA.

1 VA : Sescha 20:20 - 20:25.
1st wave:
6 x Il-2 (leader Maj. M.Bondarenko, 198 shap) with close escort of 6 x Yak-1 (leader Kap. Gugnin, 122 iap);
6 x Il-2 (leader Kap. V.Malinkin, 198 shap), 5 x La-5 (49 iap);
1 x Il-2 (leader Kap. Gubanov, 62 shap) with escort of 5 x Yak-7 (172 iap. Kap.Sibirtzev), 6 x Yak-1 (162 iap) and 5 x Yak-1 (172 iap);
2nd wave:
9 x Pe-2 (2 bap), 9 x Pe-2 (261 bap), 8 x Pe-2 (bap) with escort of 42 x La-5 (2 giap, 263 iap, 522 iap)

--------------------------
Road to target:

In the area of Dolgoye group was intercepted by 6 x Fw190.

Claims:
Fw190 was shot down by Yak-1 (Kap. N.Gugnin, 122 iap), crashed in area of Dolgoye;

--------------------------
Over the target:
Groups of Il-2 were intercepted by large groups of Bf109 and Fw190's.

Losses:
La-5 (Ml.Lt. Stadnichuk, 522 iap) was shot down by AAA, crashed at Bryn' area.

Sescha airfield:
198 shap: ~ 20 aircrafts destroyed, damaged ~ 15, 3 large explosions (thought fuel and ammo depots);
2 bap, 261 bap: destroye d5 aircrafts, several buildings, 3 explosions.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:

After attack both groups came under attack of another group of Fw190 (1st two groups of Fw190's fought against escort fighters to manage them out of Il-2's and Pe-2's). Attacks followed from Sescha to frontline and even further.

Claims:
Fw190 shot down by Il-2 gunner (crew of leader of all formation Maj. M.Bondarenko, 198 shap), crashed in area Zagorje, E from Rekovichi;
Fw190 shot down by Il-2 (Kap. Mailinkin, 198 shap), crashed in swamp near Sescha;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (Kap. Gugnin, 122 iap), crashed near Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (Ml.Lt. Bushkov, 122 iap), crashed near Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7 (Kap. Sibirtzev, 172 iap), crashed near Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Maj. Alifanov, 263 iap), crashed 8 kms NW Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Ml.Lt. Sapegin, 263 iap), crashed 12 kms NW Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Kap. Popov, 263 iap), crashed 25 kms NE Sescha airfield;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Lt. Kosolapov, 2 giap), crashed 6 kms SE Sel'tzo;
Fw190 shot down by Pe-2 gunners, (crew of Lt. Vorobjov, 261 bap), crashed near Sescha airfield;

Losses:
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Zakharchenko, 2 bap), damaged by enemy fighers, crashed on landing;
Pe-2 (Kap. Fedchenko, 2 bap), damaged by enemy fighers, crashed on landing;
Pe-2 (Maj. Petrov, 261 bap), damaged by enemy fighers, crashed on landing;
Pe-2 (Serj. Struchkov, 261 bap), shot down by enemy fighers, failed to return from combat mission in area on Sescha;
Pe-2 (Serj. Yerotzky, 261 bap), shot down by enemy fighers, failed to return from combat mission in area on Sescha;
Il-2 (Maj. M.Bondarenko, 198 shap) damaged by enemy fighters at Sescha-Ludinovka, could reach territory and emlanded;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Petrov, 198 shap) damaged by Fw190, could reach his airfield emlanded;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Zinovsky, 198 shap) damaged by Fw190, could reach territory and emlanded at airfield Zhelezniki;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Zakharov, 198 shap) damaged by Fw190, could reach territory and emlanded at airfield Ostrova;
Il-2 (Lt. Drozdov, 198 shap) damaged by Fw190, could reach territory and emlanded 15km SW Medyn';
La-5 (Starsh. Smolyanov, 49 iap) damaged by enemy fighters, emlanded at airfield Ostrova;
Yak-1 (St.Lt. Sychev, 162 iap) damaged by enemy fighters, emlanded at airfield Dvoyevka;
Yak-1 (St.Lt. Vinokurov, 122 iap) failed to return on combat mission.
Yak-1 (St.Lt. Minarsky, 162 iap) failed to return on combat mission.

Originally Posted by Nokose

Hptm Hermann 3/ZG1 shows on Tony Woods list Il-2 m.b. [Il-4] 19:25 and Il-4 19:33. ...
... Il-4 is a two motor bomber.

"Il-4" missidentification of I./ZG 1 was discussed already.

BTW: fates of Hptm. W.Hermann and Kap. V.Malinkin (leader of 2nd group of 198 shap in that day) will cross a bit later, on 13 july 1943. In crazy furball of 4 Il-2, leaded by squadron leader of 1st squadron of 198 shap Kap. Malinkin and 12 Bf110G-2 from Stab./ZG 1, Stab I./ZG 1 and 1./ZG 1 Kap. Malinkin was shot down and killed by Wilfried Hermann. Wingman of Malinkin, further Il-2 expert and twice Hero of Soviet Union Lt. Efimov shot down Comodore ZG 1 J.Blechschmitt. Malinkin had at that time 5 enemy fighters at his score. In Tony Woods lists claim of Hermann on 13 july listed as "Il-4". It is just mean "Il-2 new (with gunner) modification", because to midsummer 1943 not all of Il-2's had gunners.

Originally Posted by Nokose

Does anyone have losses for JG51 for the claims made by the VVS?

Good question

[Evgeny Velichko]

From Tony Woods:

jan - june 1943 claimed:
198 x Il-2 (actually Il-2 one seater & twoseater)
41 x Il-2 m.H. (correctly identified, Il-2 twoseater)
23 x Il-4 (actually Il-2 twoseater)
46 x Il-5 (actually Il-2 twoseater)
40 x Il-7 (actually Il-2 twoseater)

40 x DB-3 (actually DB-3F and Il-4 two engine bombers)

jul - dec 1943 claimed:
1027 x Il-2 (actually Il-2 one seater & twoseater)
1054 x Il-2 m.H. (correctly identified, Il-2 twoseater)
118 x Il-4 (actually Il-2 twoseater)
62 x Il-5 (actually Il-2 twoseater)
67 x Il-7 (actually Il-2 twoseater)

126 x DB-3 (actually DB-3F and Il-4 two engine bombers)

From O.Rastrenin "Il-2" monography:

Combat losses of Il-2 in 1943:

Shot down in air combats: 1090
Shot down by AAA fire: 1468
Failed to return from combat mission (unknown readon):: 917
Destroyed on airfields: 40

[Andy Fletcher]

Hi Evgeny,

Thank you very much for posting the data.

Is there any chance you could post up similar data for the VVS attacks on 6-8May43.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[Evgeny Velichko]

Yes, a bit later.

There is a big difference between those operations.

6-8 may it was many small raids, to 10 or more airfields in each under attack.

8 - 10 june only few airfields were under attack, but attack groups of VVS were large.

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko

Yes, a bit later.

Excellent, look forward to it.

[Nokose]

I found this in Jagdgeschwader 3 "Udet" in WW2 by Jochen Prien and Gerhard Stemmer. It stated in the losses for 08Jun43 5./JG3 Obgefr. Heinz Welsch (MIA) Air combat LaGG-3, 20 km west of Belgorod Bf-109G-4 Wkr. 14 858 and II/JG3 engine trouble, belly landing south of Belgorod, 35%. He stated in that Welsch was escorting Ju-87 when he was shot down by La-5's.

[CENTURION]

Hi Evgeny,

Fantastic info. Thank you.
If possible, please keep posting.

Best Regards
Marco

[Evgeny Velichko]

I is the only what I found.

8 june 1943

FW190A-3, 5327, Oblt. Alejander Perez Gonzales, 15.(sp)/JG 51, KIA on 8.6.43 due to enemy fighters. Pl.Qu. 34413, 100%

Bf 109G-4, 15199, II./JG 3, Bauchlandung on 8.6.43 due to engine damage. Pilot O.K.SW of Bjelgorod. 35%.

Bf 109G-4, 14858, Gefr. Heinz Welsch,5./JG 3, schwarz 2 + -, MIA on 8.6.43, cause unknown. Pl.Qu. 61/12, 100%

On earth:
He111H-16, 8206, II./KG 55, Bombenwurf on 8.6.43.Fl.Pl. Seschtschinskaja 100%
He111H-16, 160415, II./KG 55, Bombenwurf on 8.6.43. Fl.Pl. Seschtschinskaja, 10%
He111H-16, 8508, II./KG 55, Bombenwurf on 8.6.43. Fl.Pl. Seschtschinskaja 10%
He111H-6, 4868, II./KG 55, Bombenwurf on 8.6.43. Fl.Pl. Seschtschinskaja 20%

10 june 1943.

Fw 190F-3, 70037, 1./Sch.G.1, Crash landing on 10.6.43., Fl.Pl.Dnepropetrowsk, 35%.

Any supplimental ground claims confirmed?

[Evgeny Velichko]

6 may 1943:

1 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfields Shatalovo and Borovskoye(~4:30)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Borovskoye (19:20-19:25)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Sescha (5:30-5:45)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Bryansk (5:17-5:37)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~12:00)
6 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~17:00)
7 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~19:00)

2 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Rogan (~5:20)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Aleshki (5:20-5:30)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Sokol'niki (5:30-5:32)
4 - Raid to attack airfields Poltava and Osnova (?)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Sokol'niki (~15:00)
6 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Aleshki (~15:00)

17 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (5:03 - 5:17)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (~19:15)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Dnepropetrovsk-South (~6:10)

15 VA raid:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (~6:30)

16 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Bolshaya Kulikovka (?)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-GVF (~14:30)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Khmelevaya and Gat' (Knubr') (14:28 - 14:30)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (~14:20)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (14:30 - 14:35)

8 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Kutejnikovo (~13:00)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Stalino (~5:45)

7 may 1943:

16 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Bolshaya Kulikovka (~5:22)
2 - Raid to attack airfields Khmelevaya (5:50-5:55) and Orel-Central (~6:00)

2 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfields Kharkov-Aleshki and Kharkov-Sokol'niki (evening)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Rogan' (~19:15)


1 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Sescha (~5:00)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Bryansk (~5:07)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (?)

8 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Ilovajsk (~8:45)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Ilovajsk (~14:25)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Kutejnikovo (~9:00)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Stalino (~9:00)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (~5:10)

-----------

It will be hard to describe all.. but I'll try

[yogybär]

Acc. to Priens book, the JG3-claims were at ca. 3:30 in the morning (Berlin time). Does this fit to the time of the attack?

Please, Evgeny, what is the source for your loss information?