Cobras, Mustangs, Thunderbolts, Eastern vs Western front, Franek vs ...

[Pilot]

It is interesting to note that in most literature was not mention at all aerial combat during the Kursk operation. By the size and intensity that was one of the strongest aerial combat in WW2.

Also Soviet fighter proven excellent in some fight against West latest machines.

[Pilot]

The only notable success was a victory of Kozhedub against P-51Ds, but US documents show this event in a different light. In the other squirmishes Soviets got beating. It even turned out that P-38 turns better than Yak.

Not at at all. You have combat in 1944 when the US fughter from altitude attack Soviet fighters in the South Serbia. US have P-38 and no matter of the advantage they suffer heavy looses in combat against Yak-3. I could tryu to get more info in my papers if you are interesting.

Also early Yak version was dog fighted against allyed Spitfire IX and Spit lost! Pilot was Yugoslav aginst RAF as I know.

As I could remember in the book "Me262 combat diary" was testimony of one Me262 pilot who said also that they attack from height at pack of Yak fighter but "vigilant" Soviet pilot escape and turn agains jet fighter so they have to brake away.

In other hand Soviet try to collect every sample of the West material and I know that they transfer almost everything from Yugoslavia to Soviet Union [there was even two B-17]. They prefer technicaly West aircrafts. I have get some info that they are in some hand prepare for the war with West after the end of WW2.

I would like to ask something- is it true that Kingcobra was dedicated for the defence of Moskva [Moscow] after the war? Is it also true that their perfomance was so good that they get this task.

[kalender1973]

Originally Posted by Pilot

In other hand Soviet try to collect every sample of the West material and I know that they transfer almost everything from Yugoslavia to Soviet Union [there was even two B-17]. They prefer technicaly West aircrafts. I have get some info that they are in some hand prepare for the war with West after the end of WW2.

I would say, not only soviet collect all but the west ally too. Me-262, He-162, V-1,2, all was transfered to UK and USA. And as we know not only the harware but some braincarrier :-)

Originally Posted by Pilot

I would like to ask something- is it true that Kingcobra was dedicated for the defence of Moskva [Moscow] after the war? Is it also true that their perfomance was so good that they get this task.

No, it is not true. The fact is that most plane of Air defence was west planes. It was either the old planes as Hurricane and P-40, that could not longer used in the front line or it was the plane as P-47 or SpitfireIX, that has better altitude charachteristic and were better equipt with radio etc.
The opinion about Kingkobra from russian pilot was very decent. One, who flown Aerocobra since 1942 and Kingkobra after the war mean "Thank God, that the war was over and we don't need fight with the Kingkobra." In his opinion Kingkobra was step back from Aerocobra, was to heavy.

[Pilot]

Thank you Igor

[Franek Grabowski]

All of the aircraft had superior radio and navigational equipment, altitude performance and better range so needed in air defence duties. They were send there because Soviet industry was unable to provide any capable design.

EDIT:

Sorry, but I managed to screw up your original post by mistake. If you can somehow figure how it went, I'll correct it ASAP.

My apologies.

Ruy Horta

[Schenck]

Pilot

Not at at all. You have combat in 1944 when the US fighter from altitude attack Soviet fighters in the South Serbia. US have P-38 and no matter of the advantage they suffer heavy losses in combat against Yak-3. I could try to get more info in my papers if you are interesting.

82nd FG lost two P-38s against 3 Yaks, so I am not sure your remark heavy losses is appropriate, not in this case of a dogfight over Nis airfield at least.

[mars]

Originally Posted by Schenck

Pilot

82nd FG lost two P-38s against 3 Yaks, so I am not sure your remark heavy losses is appropriate, not in this case of a dogfight over Nis airfield at least.

I believe in this incident was P-38s vs Yak-1s

[Ruy Horta]

All of the aircraft had superior radio and navigational equipment, altitude performance and better range so needed in air defence duties. They were send there because Soviet industry was unable to provide any capable design.

Judging by Mikoyan's line of high altitude designs I'm less inclined to believe that statement. Industrial output was aimed at maximising the output of certain types of aircraft and engine to the detriment of all other designs. That other designs were capable or perhaps even superior didn't matter, the choice was made at the political level (often Stalin himself).

But even if such aircraft were produced, like the Mig-3 with superior high altitude performance, they were often limited to the same tactical doctrine as the more orthodox designs, low to medium altitude operation.

That Soviet industry could learn from other nations and did copy (adopt) foreign design is a fact, but that can easily be a universal statement for any industrial nation, but that they weren't capable of designing (or producing) their own solutions is IMHO incorrect.

[Graham Boak]

But what was the production standard of an "ordinary" Tropicalised Mk.Vc by 1945? Despite the appearance of 4-bladed props and individual exhausts on Seafires and some RAF Mk.Vs, the low-rated engines did not need either of these fittings.

However good the Yugoslavs in these trials, Newton's laws still would have applied to them. With engines of similar power, the lighter Yak 3 should have comfortably exceeded the Mk.V in a climb. So either the Yak had lower-power engines for some reason, or the Spitfire had higher.

I presume we are talking about steady climbs, not zoom climbs. Which fuels were used in the trials? Do you have access to a report or are you relying upon anecdotal comments?

[Franek Grabowski]

Graham
As standard as Mk VC trop could be. It is indeed surprising after reading so many performance figures, but I would say it was just reality. Soviet propaganda for years worked to prove the world the Soviet Union is a leading country in all respects. It was so unrefined that some people here laughed that within few years Yaks will break the sound barrier.
Trials were described in a Yugoslav booklet about Spitfire. I was unable to obtain a copy of the report, but I would hardly call it anecdotal. Climb - I presume steady climb, please note that superior climb was already noted by 57 GvIAP in 1943. One possible explanation is that Spitfire was not loaded to achieve gross weight. The fuel does not matter, as Spitfire needed 100, so any deviation would be unfavourable for the aircraft.