New Stuka book

[blonde]

Hello, pls, can you tell me, is in theese books anything about SG 102 in Deutsch Brod? I am reseraching history of this base, and SG 102 was here for two or three yers. Can you help me?

[Nick Beale]

I had a look at Ward's book and in the areas I know a little about (Nachtschlachtgruppen) he certainly didn't separate fact from fantasy. The caption to the profile of a supposed NSG 9 machine says, IIRC, that the Gruppe flew tank-busting missions at night. I'd love to see his evidence for that!

Griehl's book is OK but again, where I know something about them, the potted unit histories are not always reliable.

Squadron/Signal's "Ju 87 in Action" is a useful reference (especially for illustrating for detailed modifications to different types).

Finally, distrust any book that goes on at length about the Ju 87 D-7 and D-8. I've never seen one mention of these sub-types in a loss report, strength return or crash/capture investigation.

[Christer Bergström]

Jukka wrote some complaints about Martin Pegg's Hs 129 book:

If MP is Martin Pegg I hope he includes serious technical stuff for gear heads as well. His Hs 129 book was seriously lacking in this regard.

I don't agree with Jukka's sweeping negative comment. Pegg's very large book on the Hs 129 is a great piece of art, very well-researched, and definitely one of the very best aviation books in my bookshelf. (Dénes Bernad's work on the Hs 129 also is great, of course!)

As most of us know, all books have some errors, and we will have to wait for the first aviation book which is totally faultless until some of the well-known whiners here writes his first book. I'm sure that will set a completely new standard for popular history books!

In short, I think many of us would look forward to see Jukka Juutinen write his first book. Why not one on the Ju 87 or the Hs 129?

[Jukka Juutinen]

Haa, haa The truth is that Pegg´s book is good on operational aspects, but for gearheads and river counters it offers basically nothing. Some examples of material which should have been included: armor specs (i.e. hardness, strength, chemical composition), performance curves, detailed drawings on construction features, handling reports (e.g. from Rechlin), production line photos showing various stages of assembly, etc.

[Christer Bergström]

material which should have been included: armor specs (i.e. hardness, strength, chemical composition), performance curves, detailed drawings on construction features, handling reports (e.g. from Rechlin), production line photos showing various stages of assembly

"Should" precisely these details have been included? Due to which law, due to which set of standards?

Martin Pegg's book "Hs 129 Panzerjäger" includes very many valuable technical aspects on the Hs 129. For instance, detailed descriptions and lots of drawings and close-up photographs on the 30mm solothurn Tungsten Carbide shell and its effect under various circumstances on armour; cockpit views; engine details and drawings; gun fittings;bomb loading applications; gunsight details; handbook copies; radio devices. To just take one example, pages 235 - 245 in this super-large size book (31 cm x 23 cm, i.e. 12 inches x 9 inches) are entirely devoted to a technical description of the SG 113 to the Hs 129, and includes five pages of full text on the subject, 19 photographs of the SG 113, and a full page of technical drawings explaining the SG 113 mounting to the Hs 129.

What you imply simply is not true.

It's cheap to criticise a book by simply demanding "more". You try to prove that Pegg's book is lacking in its technical description by selecting the details which were not included in Pegg's book. Thus you give an unfair and distorted picture of a book which has a very good balance between technical descriptions and operational history.

But I'd like to give you one chance to defend yourself: Please list ten other Luftwaffe aircraft history books which give all of what you demanded, plus the kind of technical details which Martin Pegg gives in his book. Here are the technical details which you claim "must" be included in any Luftwaffe aircraft book:

* armor specs (i.e. hardness, strength, chemical composition)
* performance curves
* detailed drawings on construction features
* handling reports (e.g. from Rechlin)
* production line photos showing various stages of assembly

I'm looking forward to that list with great anticipation. I wonder how I could have missed Luftwaffe aircraft books which go that much into detail!

While you, Jukka, the expert on what "must" be in Luftwaffe aircraft books are working on that, please also list five or six books where I can find comparative performance curves for different Me 109 aircraft individuals (i.e. different aircraft of the same production type, like e.g. the F-4) at various stages of engine wear and at various weight stages (full tank, full loaded, half full tank, etc); also with cirves for various degrees of polishing, and some comparative performance curves for various degrees of pilot skills regarding trim, propeller pitch etc. Those performance curves will tell the reality - contrary to the clean test flight performance curves, which give us no span but only are fairly clinical. Please list a few books where those "must" performance curves can be found for the Me 109 F-4.

[Jukka Juutinen]

Well, take a look at Dean´s America´s Hundred Thousand. Excepting armor specs it has basically the info I miss from Pegg.

Or, Regnat´s Do 335 book and Leverenz&Herrman´s FW 190A book. Plenty of data Pegg didn´t have.

You mentioned that Pegg had 10 pages on the SG 113. Well, as is so typical in Luftwaffe books, experimental or other weird stuff is trampled to death, but the things that were the backbone are skipped over. So Pegg´s coverage of e.g. the MK 101 and MG 151 was dirt poor.

If a small Czech booklet has more detailed tech details than a big, expensive book on the same subject, things are fishy indeed. Note: e.g. the Fokker Triplane book from the same publisher has much better technical coverage of its subject for a lot lower page count than Pegg´s book. So, I blame Pegg, not the publisher.

[Christer Bergström]

Jukka, you demanded that Pegg's book should have had all of this:

* armor specs (i.e. hardness, strength, chemical composition)
* performance curves
* detailed drawings on construction features
* handling reports (e.g. from Rechlin)
* production line photos showing various stages of assembly

But you are unable to give us the title of even a single Luftwaffe aircraft book - not even any aircraft book at all - which provides the reader with all of that.

I don't know why you subject Pegg's book to such unfounded attacks, but I will stop discussing the issue with you now, since I think that anyone who reads this thread will be able to draw cprrect conclusions about Martin Pegg's excellent Hs 129 book by now. (Yes, Dénes Bernád's Hs 129 book also is great, but I don't want to compare the two.)

[Kutscha]

Jukka, I would not worry to much about what some people have to say as they miss the fact that you were only using the Pegg book as an example.

I agree with you that many books only tell half the 'story' on an a/c. Performance curves, detailed drawings (3 view and cut-away isometric) and handling reports really should be included to fill out the a/c's 'story'.

[Jim P.]

I'm with Christer on this one. All the techie stuff does nothing for me at all other than knowing what I need to know to tell one variant from another.

[Juha]

And I’m with Jukka. Even the armour info might be relevant in Hs 129 and Il-2 cases because of their construction. In many cases opponent a/c had different optimal heights so that one could be faster in one height band and the other in other. Comparing speed graphs one can see that. And that might made it easier to understand the tactics used. Same with handling notes. And construction details are always interesting. And Jukka is unfortunately right when he noted that far too often the all kinds of oddies which had no effects on battlefields has descript thoroughly but the widely used weapons got only cursory descriptions or not even that.
And we Finns are fortunate that in Raunio’s Lentäjän Näkökulma 2 one can check inside which interval the max. speeds of different MS 406s and Fiat G.50s varied after major overhauls.

Juha
Ps. I liked the Pegg's book for its operational info and IIRC there are also pilots' views which were clearly more positive than that of Eric Brown in his AI article.