10./JG 2 & 7./NJG 1 Staffelkapitan Signature ID's

[Kapper]

Kaczmarek comment made me think it might be Steinhoff and looking at some of the signed photo's of Johannes Steinhoff on the internet, it looks very close. Only problem is my notes show Steinhoff as Staffelkapitan of 11(N)/JG2 at the time not 10(N)/JG2 ???

As to the second scan of signatures

1. first signature - looks like Wagener or Wagner? my opinion?
second signature - Wolfrat Bauer as already noted

2. looks like Franz Muntfering who I have as Staffelkapitan until Jul 41

3. Wilhelm Dormann as already noted (I have as Staka Sep 42 to WIA 17-18 Aug 43)

4. same as 2 above

Regards

Craig...

[hucks216]

Thanks for your efforts guys. When it comes to the possible Johannes Steinhoff signature do you mean 'Macki' Steinhoff as I can not find any reference to him being a member of JG 2 - I have him with JG 26 and then with JG 52 from February 1940?

[Kapper]

Yes I meant Johannes 'Macki' Steinhoff.

I have the following:
Steinhoff was Staffelkapitan of 10(N)/JG26 at the start of the War
Feb 40 10(N)/JG26 became 11(N)/JG2 when IV(N)/JG2 was formed
Jun 40 11(N)/JG2 became 5/NJG1 as IV(N)/JG2 became II/NJG1
Jul 40 5/NJG1 became 8/NJG1 as II/NJG1 became III/NJG1

It appears that Steinhoff left NJG1 sometime around Jul/Aug 40 to become Staffelkapitan 4/JG52 in August 1940

It is all a bit confusing and I put this together from several sources. Sorry I cannot quote the sources as I only have the notes that are stored on my computer with me. However, I can confirm one source is Preins JFV series as can be seen from the claims list below.

18.12.39 Oblt. Johannes Steinhoff: 1 10.(N)/JG 26 Wellington £ 25-35 km. S.S.W. Helgoland 14.30 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. II - 1
18.12.39 Oblt. Johannes Steinhoff: 2 10.(N)/JG 26 Wellington £ 25-35 km. S.S.W Helgoland 14.35 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. II – 5
10.05.40 Oblt. Johannes Steinhoff: 3 11.(N)/JG 2 Blenheim £ Düsseldorf - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 3 – 4
10.05.40 Oblt. Johannes Steinhoff: 4 11.(N)/JG 2 Blenheim £ Den Haag - OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 3 - 5


30.09.40 Oblt. Johannes Steinhoff: 5 4./JG 52 Spitfire £ Dorking 13.45 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/I - 38B

14.02.41 Oblt. Johannes Steinhoff: 6 4./JG 52 Spitfire £ 30 km. N. Dungeness: no height 13.00 Film C. 2033/I Anerk: Nr. – 47
19.05.41 Oblt. Johannes Steinhoff: 7 4./JG 52 Spitfire £ nördlich Dover 12.40 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II - 54B
19.05.41 Oblt. Johannes Steinhoff: 8 4./JG 52 Spitfire £ nördlich Dover 12.45 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. 4/II - 57B

Information on who was with NJG1 on formation was confusing with pilots transfering in and out, so I can only assume it was unpopular for the traditional fighter pilots, with many transferring out to fill the losses during the Battle of Britain. This period between February and August 1940 has always been a bit light on information as to what happened to Steinhoff.

I also have during this period, Erwin Bacsila as Staffelkapitan of 10(N)/JG2 but the signature is definitely not his. 10(N)/JG2 later became 4/NJG1 then 7/NJG1) and Bacsila also left NJG1 to eventually become Staffelkapitan of 7/JG52 in early Aug 1940, so maybe the designations of 10(N)/JG2 and 10(N)/JG26 to 10 & 11(N)/JG2 was the other way around when IV(N)/JG2 was formed?? mybe 10(N)/JG26 was the more senior Staffel? It all seems unlikely but possible in light of the signature in your document.

All open for further debate

Regards,

Craig...

[hucks216]

Thanks very much for the clarification Craig and from what you have posted it certainly does look like Macki was with JG 2 - maybe he was signing on behalf of the Staka of 10./JG 2 for some reason? I have been able to find one example of his signature dated for 1954 and there certainly do seem to be some similarities.

[hucks216]

Judging by this interview http://www.tarrif.net/wwii/interview..._steinhoff.htm and correlating with his claims list in Craig's post above it would seem that Steinhoff went from 10./JG 26 to 4./JG 52 in February 1940 (as he admits in the 6th question) and then to 11(N)./JG 2 for the French Campaign as he mentions in that question that he remained with 4./JG 52 until the French Campaign - but in a later question he answers, when referring to a question about Hans-Joachim Marseille, that he was with 4./JG 52 at the start of the BoB.

[Kapper]

Here is more to further confuse the situation further.

Heinz Schumann is listed as Staffelkapitan of 4/JG 52 from the beginning of the war and he made his second claim on 14 May 1940 before transferring to JG51. The exact date of transfer is uncertain, supposedly to 2./JG51 but I have him as taking over 1./JG51 after Georg Claus became POW on 11 Nov 1940.

Also Marsielle was with I(J)/LG2 by 2 Sep 40 (aircaft loss) so if Steinhoff commanded Marsielle it would have to have been before then. So if all this is accurate then that would put Steinhoff taking over 4/JG52 somewhere between 14 May and 2 Sep. Personally I believe this happened during a short break in operations for II/JG52 in July 1940 after the French campaign, which was around the same time as the reorganisation of several units into NJG1.

I know it is difficult to refute an interview with the person in question but a lot can happen in war and maybe he was confused on the exact date? Maybe 10(N)/JG26 didn't change it's title (maybe it was changed on paper only?) until it became part of NJG1 in June. I've heard of cases where a unit title has changed in command communiques but the unit itself didn't take up the change until weeks or even months later.

Most of what I've stated comes from Prien's JFV series (particularly claims). Maybe Jochen Prien can expand on the source of his information?

Still many questions to be answered

Regards,

Craig...

[hucks216]

In the interview Steinhoff mentions that he fired Marseille not long after the start of the BoB due to him being a poor wingman in terms of flying discipline.

Another aspect though with regards to Steinhoff's signature being in this soldbuch is whatever unit he was with they were obviously sharing the same airfield facilities. Considering that the ink that his signature is in is completely different from the rest of that particular entry I wonder if that entry had been written in by a clerk (as was the norm) and then he just happened to be in the admin section of the staffel when they needed the authorising signature from the staffelkapitan and with the staka of 10./JG 2 not being available for some reason or other he was happy to oblige?