luftwaffe flying discs

[ArtieBob]

Dear Franek,

if you are referring to the Vought V-173/ XF5U program, this was an entirely US program with no links to Luftwaffe technology. The XF5U protoype was preceeded not only by the V-173 full size proof of concept prototype, which first flew in 1942, but powered models before that. Charles H. Zimmerman was granted a patent on the concept in 1935 and the original proposal to the US Navy was made in 1939. The concept was not “bad “ or ridiculed, but the development cycle was sufficiently prolonged with collateral problems not related to the aerodynamic concept, that by the time it neared maturity, other technology had preempted the role for which it was intended.

Best regards,

Artie Bob

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Ed,

Okay, I bit, and went to Google. I entered in "lifter technology" as you suggested. Apparently prominent in the field is a fellow named Tim Ventura. I went to the site recommended and viewed a video clip of a supposed device kept in the air by lifter technology. It was a small triangular skeletal structure giving the appearance that it was moving horizontally within a room. However, upon observing the background, it was clear that the camera was moving around the device, rather than the other way around, and the video was sufficiently small that any supporting wires could easily have been masked.

But, given the possibility that lifter technology is an actual possibility, which I would love to believe, the indication is that the structure must remain very light to lift at all, i.e., NASA's ion propulsion isn't going to produce a lot of thrust either.

So, the question is where is the heavy lift capability to make such technology actually useful? And, while I remain quite skeptical to your claim that ridicule of flying saucers has allowed a full blown program to remain secret for 50 years, why on earth would NASA not utilize such technology rather than constructing conventional rocket propelled craft with their huge fuel consumption?

I've been a member of the American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics, the premier technical society of the aerospace community, essentially since Sputnik - and interested in rocketry and space propulsion since childhood. I do think that advanced propulsion systems are going to be needed to be able to practically explore the solar system and beyond. In the propulsion meetings, papers on advanced propulsion concepts are presented, yet I'm not aware of anything that has gone into practical vehicle propulsion as of yet. The closest thing as far as I know was the successful flight testing of scramjet technology.

I find it rather curious that the professionals on the cutting edge of advance propulsion concepts would be completely kept in the dark for 50 years about saucers utilizing some breakthrough technology. Ed, it stretches credulity.

Regards,
Richard

[Skyraider3D]

Practically all Nazi flying saucers were made up in the 1960s. The 1970s German magazine Luftfahrt International even devoted an article to it, with the intention to break the myth. However there are still lots of people that believe in BMW Flügelrads and whatnot...

As far as I'm aware the only flying disc ever made in Germany during WW2 was the Arthur-Sack As 6 V1. A most peculiar aircraft. Thanks to its weak undecarriage it never managed to take off and everytime stranded halfway its take-off run.

More info: http://www.luft46.com/misc/sackas6.html

PS. I've made a 3D model of the As 6 V1 but unfortunately haven't been able to finish it yet: http://home.wanadoo.nl/r.j.o/skyraider/as6v1_1wip.htm

[edwest]

Dear Richard,


I promise not to strain credulity any further.


Regards,
Ed West

[white1]

thanks guys so the answer is no they probably didnt have any advanced disc projects.

[FRANCESCO M LENTINI]

For Ed West

When I was young (today I'm 47 years old) I was very interesting about UFO and of many books that I read I have keep only one "Intercettateli senza sparare" -intercept without shoot- written by Renato Vesco, Mursia editor 1968 Italy;
I don't believe about "nazi Ufo" or more widely about human origin but this book research in deep (for the time (1968!) from the german underground factories (also in Italy for the mass production of He 162 e V2) to foo-fighters until to finish in the canadian forest where the first allied post war UFO flew.

I think that exists also an english version.

Many greetings to all
Francesco Maria Lentini

[edwest]

Thank you for your comments. I suggest the book Die realitat der Flugscheiben by J. Andreas Epp. The U.S. Air Force has a file about his research.

I have the English language edition of the book by Renato Vesco.



Regards,
Ed West

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Ed, et al,

At last, I have found reference to lifter technology in a planned oral presentation at an American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics meeting:

42nd AIAA/ASME/SAE/ASEE Joint Propulsion Conference and Exhibit

"The Impulse to Explore-Igniting a Passion for Space"

Sacramento Convention Center, Sacramento, California, 9-12 July 2006

Tuesday Afternoon/11 July 2006

Session 91-NFF-5: Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Assessments

Chaired by: C. Taylor, Jupiter R&D, Houston, TX, and J. Hauser, HPCC-Space GmbH, Salzgitter, Germany

AIAA-Oral Presentation
An Assessment of Faster-Than-Light Spacetimes: Make or Break Issues
E. Davis, Inst. for Advanced Studies at Austin, Austin, TX

AIAA-Oral presentation
Null Tests of Breakthrough Energy Claims
S. Little, EarthTech International, Inc., Austin, TX

AIAA-Oral presentation
Experimental Findings of Lifters, Asymmetrical Capacitor Thrusters, and Similar Electrogravitic Devices
F. Canning, Simply Sparse Technologies, Morgantown, WV

AIAA-Oral Presentation
Experimental Results of the Woodward Effect on a µN Thrust Balance
M. Tajmar, Austrian Research Centers, Seibersdorf, Austria

AIAA-2006-4912
Breakthrough Physics Research at USAFA
T. Lawrence and K. Siegenthaler, U.S. Air Force Academy, USAF Academy, CO

AIAA-Oral Presentation
Responding to Mechanical Antigravity
M. Millis, NASA Glenn, Cleveland, OH; and N. Thomas, Univ. of Miami, Miami, FL

AIAA-Oral Presentation
Recent Theories on Fundamental Interaction and Possible Implications for Propulsion
O. Bertolami, Instituto Superior Técnico, Lisbon, Portugal

AIAA-Oral Presentation
Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Panel Discussion
- Moderated by Marc Millis, NASA Glenn Research Center

This is THE annual propulsion conference for the AIAA. I can't speak to the scientific basis of the talk that includes lifter technology, but at least there is a presentation on it in what is the most prestigious space propulsion conference of the year.

Thought you'd be interested to know about it.

Regards,
Richard

[edwest]

Dear Richard,


Thank you very much for posting this. In the 1920s, Thomas Townsend Brown published an article titled "How I Control Gravity."

My theory is simple. In the not too distant past, high-tech weapons included catapults and then cannons. Infantry weapons were also rather primitive. Then oil and derived chemicals were discovered, followed by synthetic fibers, fertilizers, and patent medicines. The point is money is made from things that come out of the ground. And from "planned obsolescence." I don't want to buy a new car every 3-5 years but I know the engine is not good for much beyond that.

I was immediately reminded of the X-15 program when I learned of the success of Burt Rutan's SpaceShip One. Richard Branson has contracted with Scaled Composites to build several SpaceShip Twos and a spaceport in New Mexico is on the drawing board. And cryogenic fuel is not being used.

Gentlemen, I submit that technology like electrogravitics will "appear" in due course. The US government decided to take another look at "cold fusion." In my own research, I've seen documents stating that in 1947 the Americans were concerned that the flying discs were Russian, based on German technology.

I am not writing this to convince anyone, just to put my information and theory out there.


Regards,
Ed West



Here is a site that covers the topic of lifters: http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/story.htm

[Nick Beale]

I have a suggestion. If anyone really believes that Germany had developed flying saucers, then why not tackle the question through the wealth of genealogical research tools now available online and elsewhere?

Find out about the births, marriages, careers, military service, academic credentials and deaths of Schriever, Habermohl, Miethe and Bellonzo (if they are not just figures of myth) and contact surviving family members.

Hundreds of thousands of people are doing this daily with their own families. It takes work and persistence but it offers a real chance to get some solid real-world information on these people and what they were doing at given points in their lives.