Researching Bf-109 Crash in Sth London

[Ruy Horta]

Craig,

Perhaps you can show these pictures to your father, he may be able to recollect more based on the visual evidence.

Also if we have established Oberfw Albert FRIEDEMANN of 6./JG52 as the pilot, perhaps we can find out more about him, his career and final f(l)ight: exploded under attack by P/O Draper of No.74 Sqdn. & fell apart over Welling at 1.45 pm on Sunday 20 October 1940?

[Ruy Horta]

According to Prien et al in JFV 4/II p. 161, WNr.2780 was marked Yellow 1 this is in accord with Barbas in II/JG 52, p. 301, incl possibility he was shot down by 74 Sqn.

Here's a profile of how the a/c may have looked, from:

SAM colours
Combat Colours Number 1
The Messerschmitt Bf 109E on the Western Front - 1940
by Peter Scott

p.42

[Craig MacPhee]

Wow. Great response - thanks everyone! And thanks for the invite Ruy.

I found the photo of the 109 that crashed in Woolwich a while ago in a book and showed it to dad. He said that it wasn't the one he saw crash at the entrance to Gibson's farm in Wickham Street - the one he saw didn't look badly damaged.

But it does sound like Friedmann was the pilot as dad told me he read in the local paper that the pilot that landed in the Gibson's farm crash was buried in Bexleyheath cemetery.

Dad was young when he saw the crash and is getting on a bit now but I know he is very observant so his recollection shouldn't be totally discounted.

He recalls that the plane was on fire when he first saw it falling and the fire had extinguished before it struck the ground. His friends started cheering when they first saw it and he told them to shutup as it could be one of 'ours'. (Typically thoughtful of dad )

Anyway, I'll show him the picture again (and the profile - thanks Ruy).

I'll let you know his resonse.

[Craig MacPhee]

Finally got to talk to Dad about this.

I showed him the photo of the crashed 109 and he said that was not the one he saw on the ground at Gibson's farm. He is convinced that the aircraft he saw was the right way up and much more intact.

He told me that he was scrumping for apples and it was a sunny and clear day and is pretty sure it was September. He saw the plane falling for a couple of minutes in the clear sky. He pointed out that the people in the photo were wearing warm clothing and the sky looks overcast.

Also, the profile has the name Walter Friedmann?

None of this seems to support that the plane was Albert Friedmann's. If my Dad's recollection is accurate, then the records must be wrong. I might stick something in the local paper and see if anyone else recalls the crash.

[Peter Cornwell]

Craig's latest post merely affirms my earlier comments on the fallibility of human memory. The correct name was Albert FRIEDEMANN & my previous posts refer. Herewith reverse of an original Press photo taken at the scene (which I posted earlier) showing the caption.

[Ruy Horta]

Perhaps your father is mistaken in location, but not in the other details, which could indicate another crash.

We are currently forcing the Friedemann crash into the mold of your father's account, mainly based on location.

Personally I think we should give more credence to his September date and the conditions of the wreck.

As for the Profile. Don't pay too much attention, it is not exact science.

Looks like the SAM people made a mistake in the pilot's name, but the a/c is an interpretation / guesstimate.

[Craig MacPhee]

I'm convinced by the evidence everyone has kindly provided, especially the photograph from Peter. Thanks again for everyone's help