Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list

[knusel]

Hello Juha,

how do you explain those often quoted scores such as Shestakov's 8+31 Spanish Civil War kills or Novichkov's 19 P-40 kills ?
Fantasy ?
Lies ?
Propaganda ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

[Juha]

Originally Posted by knusel

Hello Juha,

how do you explain those often quoted scores such as Shestakov's 8+31 Spanish Civil War kills or Novichkov's 19 P-40 kills ?
Fantasy ?
Lies ?
Propaganda ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

I don't know. Looked from Maslov's Polikarpov I-15, I-16 and I-153 Aces (Osprey) info on Shestakov. In text he writes that Shestakov got 2+1 in Spain but added that some sources put his score in Spain at 8 aircraft shot down. And later, after a very short survey on Shestakov's actions during the GPW, that "In 82 aerial engagements he achieved 15 individual and 11 shared kills prior to his death in combat on 13 March 1944,...Shestakov's total score, including his service in Spain, had risen to 23 individual and 44 shared victories..." This last figure is also in the "Soviet Polikarpov Aces" table at the end of the book. So Shestakov's score in Spain was 2+1, 8 or 8+33 according to Maslov.

[knusel]

Hello Juha,

you're right, I checked the Maslov book again.
Personally, I would not consider it impossible for Shestakov to score 8 individual plus more than 30 shared kills in Spain. But I think it's virtually impossible to do so and becoming a HSU not until 10Feb1942. Thus, I assume a spain score of 2+1sh is far more likely.

After scrutinizing the website that's based on Bykov's work, my P-40 top ten ace list needs an update:

ace: P-40 score(total score)

1. Caldwell: 20,5(28,5)
2. Drake: at least 16(21)
3. Pokryshev: 15,1(23,6) - according to Bykov
4. Hill: 13,25(15,25)
5. Litavrin: 13(18) - according to Bykov
6. Hampshire: 13(13)
7. Holloway: 13(13)
8. Neale: 13(13)
9. Edwards: 12,83(16,08)
10. Zotov: 12,73-13,73(22,18-23,18) - according to Bykov

I dropped Waddy (12,5 P-40 kills) and Novichkov (6,33 P-40 kills according to Bykov, 19 P-40 kills according to Mellinger).

Some questions remain:

• I'm still looking for Drake's definite P-40 score. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45616
• How many pilots took part in the Viktor Zotov's 2 shared kills on 30Sep1942 ?
• I found a guy in the www: Михалин Михаил Федорович with 14+2sh P-40 kills. Is he real ?

Michael

[knusel]

Update: I found another high-scoring P-40 pilot named Nikolai Zelenov.
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/zh/zelenov_na.htm
Total score of 33,4 [30+12],
P-40 score: 19,23 [17+8]

Michael

[Jim Oxley]

As a suggestion Michael, in listing the P-40 aces is it worthwhile to break them down by Theatre?

Doesn't affect the Soviets or British as in their Theatre of Ops (Russia and Western Desert respectively) they always faced the same enemy ie Germans, over basically the same country.

But there is quite a difference with the Americans. They flew the P-40 in greatly varied circumstances each unique ie MTO, CBI and SWP. Each of the four Americans you have mentioned all fought in the CBI.

In the SWP the top scoring P-40 pilot was Robert deHaven with 10 victories. In the MTO it was Levi Chase, also with 10 victories.

[knusel]

Good morning Jim,

interesting consideration.
Currently, I'm trying to prove that the P-40 scored kills on all five continents:

• Europe: Nikolai Zelenov & Co
• Africa: Clive Caldwell & Co
• Asia: David Hill & Co
• Australia & Oceania: Robert DeHaven & Co
• America: John Cape shot down a Zero over Umnak Pass in a P-40E on 4Jun42

In Germany we associate Hawaii with Oceania rather than with America, that's why I'm not inclined to count George Welch's Pearl Harbor kills as "America kills".
I think I need a proof that Umnak Pass and the Aleutian Island belong to America geographically.

Michael

[Frank Olynyk]

Michael,
Umnak Pass is a strait between Umnak Island and Unalaska Island, in the Aleutian Islands chain. To my knowledge, there is no "Aleutian Island". They are a mostly volcanic extension of the Alaska Peninsula. I have credits for 40 victories for the 11th Air Force, based in Alaska. This includes claims by P-38s, P-39s and P-40s in the period June 1942 to April 1943. It also includes one claim by S/Ldr Boomer, CO of No 111(F) RCAF Squadron.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[knusel]

Good evening Frank,

typo: accidentally I omitted the "s" in Aleutian Islands.
My ADAC atlas indicates that geographically the Aleutian Islands should be assigned to America, not to Asia or Oceania.
Thus, all aircraft types that have scored there are candidates for the title five-continent-fighter.

40 kills of the 11. Air Force in Alaska ?
This website shows only 33,5:
http://www.cieldegloire.com/bataille..._us_alaska.php
the top scorer being the P-38 pilot Frederick Moore.

Can you tell if the P-38, the P-39 or the P-40 had the largest share of the 40 kills ?

Best greetings from rainy Brandenburg,

Michael

[knusel]

Good morning Gentlemen,

I've just finished working through "Tomahawk and Kittyhawk Aces of the RAF and Commonwealth" by Andrew Thomas. It's the fourth Andrew Thomas book that I've read and I enjoyed it very much.
Few questions remain:
1. Clive Caldwell faked his birth certificate to become a fighter pilot. What is his correct date of birth and what was his faked date of birth ?
2. How many combat missions did Caldwell fly in WW2 ?
3. There's a vivid description of a combat of Witold Urbanowicz against a Japanese plane. Urbanowicz's guns jammed but the Japanese slammed into the ground at high speed. I would call that a manoeuvre kill. Why isn't it included in his kill list ?

Cheers,

Michael

[BruceMk11]

Caldwell's invented DOB: 28/7/1911. This can be seen in his digitised service file (p 25) at the NAA.