Vichy-French navy NAA-57

[Lucien]

I wish also to add that this post has nothing to do with Luftwaffe and/or axis powers and has to be repositioned. I fully agree on that point with CJE.

[CJE]

Hello Lucien,
Ruy heard us, thanks to him.
But I can understand that our foreign friends may be puzzled as to where start a thread re Vichy.
They all are forgiven in advance.

Chris

[Skyraider3D]

That's a very comprehensive reply, Lucien! Many thank, and many thanks to everyone else for your contributions.

Originally Posted by Lucien

- what colour the bottom half of the cowling is (on both SR-11 and SR-12)?

Most probably aluminium.

Am I correct to assume that the whole plane was aluminium coloured too?


Yes, it was a bit tricky to place this post. Out of "axis", "allied" and "pacific" I figured it had to be the first one, but I understand why it shouldn't have been there either. I guess it wouldn't be too different from deciding where to place a post about a neutral country.

[Lucien]

In 1940, at the time of their delivery, the NAA 57 were painted aluminium. Some Navy a/c were later painted blue grey and some Armée de l'Air a/c were camouflaged.

I agree, this post should have been placed in a different category where other neutral (at the time) countries air forces (Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Portugal, etc.) could be eventually discussed.

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks Lucien.

Do you happen to know anything about the exact specification of how Vichy markings were applied? Like placement and dimensions?

[CJE]

For the French there is one and only rule: no rules!
Though there were official specs they were seldom respected, unless markings were applied in factories.
It would be a bit long to give the list of specs and the way they were respected or not.
I wrote in 2000 a booklet on the camo and markings of the French Air Force 1938-1945. We even published an English edition. Both editions are out of print.
If you really are interested by this topic, drop me an e-mail and I'll send you a pdf file - not of the whole booklet, but of the chapter regarding the markings.
Cheers,
Chris

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks very much Chris! You've got a PM

Originally Posted by CJE

For the French there is one and only rule: no rules!

Yes, I had noticed the randomness on French planes. A quick example is the variety in the font used on "SR-11" and "SR-12".

[Modeldad]

As long as the can is open. And not sure of the legal/treaties between Vichey and Germany or Italy, but troops of Spain, Portugal and Soth Amarican regimes did not actively fire upon and engage Allied troops in combat (Spain and Portugal were Neutrals after all), none othe mentioned countried carried out anti- Jewish programs more intense than the German ones.

What about Bulgaria, it did not have an anti-Jewish policy, and it was more conservative monarchist than Facist like Rumania, so is it now in a new forum?

Do we create a new forum for Italy, Bulgaria and Rumania after their government switched?

In my simple opinion, Vichey acted in the interest of Germany in all aspects of the War, whether under direct command or not.

[Graham Boak]

Yet the Vichy French did not initiate combat with the Allies, it was the other way around. Rather like the Bulgarians, which you mention. Should Iceland thus be moved to the Axis camp, under similar rules?

And at least one USAAF P-38 was lost to Spanish He 112s, so your comment there isn't watertight.

I'm happy with Vichy being regarded as separate to the Axis states, in view of its overall position and actions. And capabilities, had it so wished. What they didn't do is at least as important as what they did. Operating on the side of the Axis, the French Navy would have turned the Mediterranean into an Axis lake. What would then have happened in open to argument, but one likely hypothesis is the participation of Turkey on the Axis side with the loss of the Baku oilfields and the key supply route through Iran.

[Alex Smart]

Thanks Steven, Great photo.

As for Vichy, well I agree that they should be clased as an Axis force. definitely could not be classed as a Neutral or Allied Force.

Haveing said that I too think though that a separate section for the Vichy Air and Naval Air Force's would be something to look into as too would be one on the Free French Forces.

Not only did they exist within France And fought against the Allies but also served overseas in North Africa where they also saw combat against Allied forces.

Alex