engine recovered, need info :)

[JG53_Volto]

I checked the engine inch by inch and there's no data plate...
I have other pics, I will post other images and numbers..
We want to identify this Bf109.
BTW thanks for your infos and help.
Alessandro

[schwarze-man]

Hi Alessandro! Look at your first picture "05 bondeno2.jpg". It shows the top of the motor with the front part of the cover ripped off. The dataplate should be under the dirt at the bottom right corner of this picture. If it is there, it will be fragile and it hides very well as it looks like the metal and it is only 2x5cm. It looks like it could still be hiding there!
Other airframe dataplates might be found,(there are many on the 109). In my experience, the most likely to survive are the ones on the inside of rib1 on each wing. These are well protected and should include the airframe number. Best of luck, wish I could show you in person!
Chris

[JG53_Volto]

Thanks a lot,Chris!
I will tell to the guys to check better the top of the engine.
Anyhow,I've got a picture that shows the revi's plate,but I think it's difficult to identify the plane,anyway I have a pic of a piece of airframe (wing?) that shows ther last 5 numbers ( I hope the WerkNummer). In an another frame (fuselage)it's readable the word MANS.
As soon as possible I'll post the images.
When we'll identify this plane ( in our opinion 109G?, we have found a part of Mk108 ) we'll invite you to visit our museum!!

Alessandro

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Originally Posted by JG53_Volto

It's clear,on the right side of the engine,five black numbers( 01104 I think,others are missing)

Hello Alessandro,

First to congratulate your group on the nice DB605.

The five black letters you noticed indicate the engine manufacturer and batch, 011-04xxx (probably 3 letters missing).
011 probably stands for Henschel-Flugmotorenbau GmbH, Kassel (hsr code).
04xxx is the serial number within the batch. According to other engine serials in that range, your engine should be a DB605 A-1.

I've notice another code on the engine block - jjp - the block was casted by VDM Halbzeugwerke GmbH, Zweigniederlasung Hildesheim.

regards,
Tomislav

[schwarze-man]

Hi Alessandro!
I would bet this is 100% Bf109G, possibly G6-U4 if you have MK108. Evidence is, MK108, DB605 (A,probably, but could be AM,AS,ASM-needs more detail evidence so, could be later sub-type). Also, on picture 05bondeno1. jpg I can see the blast deflector tubular mounting for MG131 for 109G (in top righthand corner of picture).
Best wishes SM

[schwarze-man]

Hi Tomislav! Fantastic detail from the batch-code!!!!!!
Are you a 605 specialist or do you have a database of engine serials? I would be very interested if you have more engine info and willing to talk!?
Best wishes, Chris

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by schwarze-man

Hi Alessandro!
I would bet this is 100% Bf109G, possibly G6-U4 if you have MK108. Evidence is, MK108, DB605 (A,probably, but could be AM,AS,ASM-needs more detail evidence so, could be later sub-type). Also, on picture 05bondeno1. jpg I can see the blast deflector tubular mounting for MG131 for 109G (in top righthand corner of picture).
Best wishes SM

I would sincerely doubt that this is a DB 605AS or ASM engine. None of the units assigned to this theater at this time has AS-engined machines, i.e., JGs 4, 53 and 77. The AS machines were being assigned to units combating USAAF bombers over Germany and France. By July all the German units were gone. The RSI units were not well organized until late 1944 and they received only a few G-14/AS machines in 1945.

[schwarze-man]

Yes John, I am only guessing the range of possibilitys from the 605A cylinderblock partnumber on an engine with MK108. I don't mean to say it is a later type unless other parts confirmed it. Certainly looks like it was a 605A at the moment.
Best wishes, SM

[JG53_Volto]

Originally Posted by Tomislav Haramincic

Hello Alessandro,

First to congratulate your group on the nice DB605.

The five black letters you noticed indicate the engine manufacturer and batch, 011-04xxx (probably 3 letters missing).
011 probably stands for Henschel-Flugmotorenbau GmbH, Kassel (hsr code).
04xxx is the serial number within the batch. According to other engine serials in that range, your engine should be a DB605 A-1.

I've notice another code on the engine block - jjp - the block was casted by VDM Halbzeugwerke GmbH, Zweigniederlasung Hildesheim.

regards,
Tomislav

Thanks Tomislav...great infos.

According to Chris & Tomislav: The plane,equipped with DB 605A ,Mk108 engine mounted,Mg131 cowling mounted..we can say is a Bf109G6/U4,right?

I wanna show you another pic,(a part of the wing?)



THANK YOU!!
Alessandro
P.S. the engine's dataplate is missing.

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hello,

@Alessandro

The combination of numbers and letters on your last pic indicate the type of material and producer.

3116.5 means it is an aluminium alloy (Al-Cu-Mg) produced in sheets up to 3mm thickness - for the aircraft industry.
ENZ is the code of the producer - Enzesfelder Metallwerk A.G., Werk Enzesfeld/N.D.

Check all the small metal bits and pieces that you found for numbers. Often the engine cowling and other removable parts had the aircraft Werk number struck or just painted on the inside. Do you know a more precise date of the crash?

@Chris (schwarze man)

I'm no DB605 specialist (although I would like to be one ).
My prime interest is the Bf109 and trough that also their engines. Over the years I've collected some engine data (producer, Werk numbers...) which today can be actually usefull. A good source are the allied Captured Enemy Aircraft Reports and various german documents concerning test flights.
Are your interest solely the DB605 or wider?


best regards,
Tomislav