Unidentified He111 insignia on two force-landed a/c Western Campaign

[F19Gladiator]

Originally Posted by robert

Hi,

all photos were on E-Bay.
On one of original prints (taken from other side) you can see the bullet`s holes in fuselage indicating that this bomber was hit in fighter attack.
Regards
Robert

Thanks Robert,
So there is another starboard side photo of the He 111, which I posted a port side photo of in post #15. Do you have it? Is it possible to share it with us?

There is nothing in the text on the album page with photo which Larry posted, enabling me to nail it to the aircraft and a 3./LG 1 loss on 10.05.1940.

The other questions ......

Any reference to the other two aircraft, which according to your answer - If I understood you right - appeared at ebay? Do you have them on your HD or the actual photos? And again, if so, can you share them?

As you repeatedly refer to "the original prints" I get the feeling you are having them all in your box?

Thank you for your patience with my questions.

Cheers
Goran

[robert]

Hi Goran,

sorry but I could not share any photos. Believe me there are at least 6-7 photos of this He 111 and you certainly have them all on your HD already :-))

Regards

Robert

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

This long discussion between Goran and Robert went on while I was asleep here in the US. Goran, Robert can't share the photos with you because he doesn't have them: I have some of the originals and another member of our EOE (Eagles Over Europe) research team has some others. Robert has only the eBay auction images and the scans that I've sent him. I own the original print from eBay that you posted. I've now identified three and probably a 4th He111 that FL or crashed from this unit. The best evidence is that the all come from the period of the French Campaign, not the Battle of Britain. Whatever unit this was, was hit hard during the May-June, 1940 period. It is me that is pushing the idea of I./LG1, with one of the photo series being a 3 Staffel machine (the one that you posted) and three others representing 1 Staffel aircraft. I've consulted with Peter Taghon about some of this evidence, and he agrees that this I./LG 1 interpretation is possible. I've since made other connections that he hasn't yet seen. All the photos together in total are leading to the I./LG 1 conclusion, although we don't yet have a totally unambiguous photo strait on of the aircraft codes. But we're close. We're going to resolve this one. There were just too many losses to the winged-bomb He111 unit to not eventually get a clear look at one of the aircraft's fuselage codes. I'm sure, if you keep track of eBay auctions, that you've seen some of the 1 Staffel aircraft; you just didn't recognize them for what they were. Instead of the yellow spinner tips of the 3 Staffel machine, all three of the 1 Staffel He111 have a prominent white segment to the prop spinner, with a darker backplate. Two of these appear to have a thin. light-colored band on the leading edge of the cowlings as well. One of these has previously been identified in print as L1+IH. The "IH" part I can confirm from a clear photo of the rear part of the fuselage code. Peter Cornwell's entry for this in TBoFrT&N says: "May 10, 1940: 1./LG1 Heinkel He111H. Shot down by Hurricanes of No.607 Sqdn during armed reconnaissance and crashed between Péronnes and Antoign, south-east of Tournai, 4.15 p.m. Possibly that attacked by P/O Jay, P/O Dini, and P/O Dixon. Uffz H. Funke and Gefr H. Schneider killed. Oberfhr H-H. Thiessen and Uffz J. Meyer captured unhurt. Aircraft L1+IH a write-off." Three photos of this crash are also recorded on P. 62-3 of Arnaud Gillet's recently published book on British Victories during the FC.

All for now.

Regards,

[F19Gladiator]

Thank you very much Larry for taking your time to explain!
Now I understand better. Very interesting! It sounds like you will be able to crack the nut.

I'll check my ebay downloads again......

Cheers!
Goran

[anderbe]

Talking of LG1, IV(St)/LG1 operating in Norway/Finland also had a bomb, this time a devil riding though..
Anders

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

This unidentified insignia of a "winged-bomb" is now confirmed as the insignia used on I./LG1 He111s during the Western Campaign of May-June, 1940. It may have been in use earlier, but clearly did not survive the re-equipment from He111s to Ju88s before the Battle of Britain. We now have examples of at least five, and possibly six individual aircraft from both 1. and 3. Staffel carrying this insignia, and which crashed on known dates in May, 1940. Research persistence pays off.

Regards,

[F19Gladiator]

Thanks Larry!
Congratulations to being able to establish the unit!

I hope we in the future will be able to share more info on these He 111s as well as the events around their crashlandings.

Well done!
Goran

[Larry Hickey]

Goran,

We have a whole team to top researchers working on it. Eventually all will be shared by publication, but we still have a long way to go. However, we're making excellent progress. We've matched up photos with crash information in more than a dozen cases in just the last few weeks.

Regards,

Larry

[steve sheridan]

Hi Larry, marvellous news to hear the EOE research team is making such ground, with these new cases.
Long may it continue, and please please! keep us up to date with any new information.
Your work is truly amazing, and much appreciated.

Best regs,
Steve.

[Larry Hickey]

Steve et. al.

The thing about the identification of the I./LG1 insignia during the FC that amazes me, is that an insignia that was apparently in widespread use, albeit for possibly a relatively short period of time, had gone unrecognized and unidentified for so many years. The unit had even had an outstanding history authored by Peter Taghon, who has done a lot of interviewing of surviving crewmen from that unit. Even he was unaware of the insignia's association with LG1. One of the truly great impacts of eBay and the internet on our field of interest is that they have allowed a lot of problems in the field to lend themselves to solutions because of the huge volume of new material becoming available, and the ability of experts to work together much more effectively.

Regards,