Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi Andrey,

A Do 24 crew was searching for a He 111 in Pl.Qu. 6524 between 06:05 and 10:25 on 3 August 1942. The Do 24 pilot noted that the relevant unit was II./K.G. 26. On an unrelated, note, I'll reply to your emails in the not too distant future - sorry for the delay.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hi Andrew,

Originally Posted by Andrew Arthy

A Do 24 crew was searching for a He 111 in Pl.Qu. 6524 between 06:05 and 10:25 on 3 August 1942.

Thank you! So He111 lost before 06:05.
Pl.Qu. 6524 - is it Luftwaffe Qu. or Kriegsmarine Qu.?

Originally Posted by Andrew Arthy

On an unrelated, note, I'll reply to your emails in the not too distant future

I'll look forward.

Cheers,
Andrey

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

Pl.Qu. 6524 - is it Luftwaffe Qu. or Kriegsmarine Qu.?

If these coordinates are from a Luftwaffe grid, then Zusatzzahlgebiet 34 Ost provides a good match, specifically coordinates 44°52’30"N 36°35'E , a location south of the Kerch strait. This would have been along the Molotov's return route, if I understand correctly.

Warm regards,

Paul

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi Andrey,

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

Thank you! So He111 lost before 06:05.
Pl.Qu. 6524 - is it Luftwaffe Qu. or Kriegsmarine Qu.?

I assumed it was the Luftwaffe Qu., given the Do 24 was flying from Feodosiya, and 6524 on the Luftwaffe grid placed it not far south of Kerch. Just had another look and realised the full Flugbuch entry was "6524, 5520, 5530, 6510. In 6524 v. 3 russ. Schnellbooten beschossen worden."

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hi Andrew,

Thank you! If Flugbuch entry was "6524, 5520, 5530, 6510", it is certainly Luftwaffe grid system.
Marine Qu. CL6524 not very far from 6524 (south-eastward).

Cheers,
Andrey

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

If Flugbuch entry was "6524, 5520, 5530, 6510", it is certainly Luftwaffe grid system.
Marine Qu. CL6524 not very far from 6524 (south-eastward).

Hello Andrey,

Is there an online explanation of the Marine Qu. system to match that available for the Luftwaffe system?

The order and location of the areas searched is perhaps interesting:

6524 is the furthest East – 44°52'30"N 36°45'E (south of Cape Zhelezny Rog – Cape Iron Horn)

5520 and 5530 are both in Feodosia Gulf, to the West and possibly further West than the He 111 H-6 could have possibly been shot down – 44°52'30"N 35°45'E and 44°57'30"N 35°45'E

6510 is south of the Kerch Peninsula and still to the West of the location of the night action – 44°52'30"N 36°15'E (south of Cape Opuk)

There is some sense that the Do 24 crew expected a dinghy to be drifting westwards, probably due to the prevailing currents.

Warm regards,

Paul

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

Is there an online explanation of the Marine Qu. system to match that available for the Luftwaffe system?

http://submarine-at-war.ru/docs/mari...24&newsquare=1

In the documents related to Marine/Luftwaffe cooperation both Lw and KM Qu. were used, often without explication. Sometimes it cause difficulties.

Warm regards,
Andrey

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

http://submarine-at-war.ru/docs/mari...24&newsquare=1

Thank you very much, Andrey! That is an intriguing website, as is the less well-developed sister website about Soviet airfields, http://airfields-wwii.ru

I have just had an obvious thought, in hindsight. Were there any reports from Soviet aircraft of naval AA fire directed at them? If there were, that would give some support to the proposition that the crew of the Molotov was confused. Conversely, if there were no such reports, it would be more likely that KG 26 did in fact attack the Molotov.

Warm regards,

Paul

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

Were there any reports from Soviet aircraft of naval AA fire directed at them?

Didn't research the events of 2/3.Aug.43 in details. Fighters claimed a He111 damaged (later was scored as downed) at 07:40+ MSK = 06:40 GST. But at the moment Germans had used bombs, not torpedoes.

It wasn't the missing He111 1T+JH from 4./KG26 because according to Andrew's post #21 Do24 had searched the missing He111 from 06:05 GST. Whether the other German losses are known for 2/3.Aug.42?

Published data about ships AA fire victims are controversial but probably 1 downed and 1 damaged planes were claimed.

Warm regards,
Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

It seems the time of loss of He111 1T+JH from 4./KG26 has fixed.
At 02:33 msk (01:33 MEZ) "Molotov" shot down a torpedo plane. The plane had inflamed in the air and then burned at sea 3-5 minutes.
At the same time (01:30=02:30 msk) MAS568 had attacked the cruiser with 2 torpedoes and claimed 2 hits (zero hits really). "Molotov" saw the boat and open fire at 02:30 msk.

At 01:30=02:30 msk Germans in Feodosia and on coastal battery (50 km away!) saw the burst and heard the sound of explosion. So later it was assumed as a firm evidence of the successful attack of MAS368. But really it was explosion of the German plane. As Luftwaffe had a sole loss over Black Sea 2-3.Aug.42, it was He111 1T+JH from 4./KG26.

Just to be safe, a question about losses of 4.(F)/122 operated over Black Sea. According to Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen, 4.(F)/122 had two losses in Aug.42. I know about the loss 23.Aug but when was 2nd loss?