Bad News from WASt

[Chris Goss]

For those expecting something from WASt, this is a precis of a letter received today:

Because of recent incidents (no details mentionend in the letter) there won't be any information from WASt anymore! Now they have to stick closely to the rules and regulations (Land Berlin) in respect of data protection which means that there will be no more VLM copies. The only way to get information, if any at all, is to provide an official document, from a university for example, that you are writing a dissertation or a thesis. Even then they will decide which part of the information they will give to you. And, in addition, the prices will rise

[Franek Grabowski]

Chris, you have beast's number of posts at the moment!
I am afraid that might be a part of wider policy that has to cut off researchers from crucial materiel hidden in German archives. I am wondering if the recent incidents have anything to some related scandals in Poland.

[RT]

Quite surprised by the reaction of Franek, Germany use us since 60 years to be the beast to beat, quite sure that problems are more with the fact that at the eyes of people in the archives, things hv to be "archivied" so for them means "stacked" they disregard wide diffusion.

Considering the things "hide" in the german archives, as all these archives were on the hands of the allies, so just name of the "hider" as changed

remi

[Jens]

Maybe it has something to do with Günther Grass. I know some historians had his records.

[Jochen Prien]

Gentlemen,

I don't think that the reaction of the WASt. is the result of some recent development over here in Germany but rather part of an official - albeit not publicly proclaimed - policy that has been going on for quite some time now and is aiming at restricting and eventually suffocating any other than purely scientific interest in the material stored at the official archives.

I have had the same experience with the Bundesarchiv / Bildarchiv over the years; when I first had contact with the BA while researching the history of JG 53 in 1985 I was helped by the staff in a most generous way, was shown around and given hints at not so obvious files where I was supposed to find what I wanted. The prints I acquired then were first class - old style photo paper, technically perfect - and were reasonably priced both as far as the acquisition of the photos as such and the payment of royalties for publication in the books were concerned.

This situation has changed constantly over the years; to cut a long story short, in the end they used plastic paper, let the quality of the prints drop considerably - blurred, too much b/w contrast, not full format - and what was the best - they did not sell the prints any longer but gave them on loan only, to be returned asap and this for prices and costs that were markedly above those where we originally started from. In my opinion all of this is meant to deter people from coming to the BA and trying to use the material that is stored there. This policy was issued higher up, definitely not at the Archive itself, and the situation was tolerable as long as the old staff was still active who knew their customers.

When I complained about this intolerable decrease of service and quality I was told that a) they didn't understand what I was complaining about and b) that they had their regulations which they had strictly to abide by. If there were a change in their services it was only for the benefit of the conservation of their assets which would suffer from extended and multiple use. At the same time they denied that this might be part of a new policy aiming at the German style of Political Correctness.

This is of course only a miniscule part of the overall issue which is that in our country these days everything is done to restrict free access to any sort of document relating to the Third Reich in general and WW II in particular where the official authorities have no control over what the user eventually does with the material he gathered. The growing number of right wing idiots - Neo-Nazis - in our country who might use this sort of material for glorifying the War and especially the Wehrmacht serves as an additional argument for this policy, doubtful or outright wrong as it may be. It all leads back to the simple truth, that Germany - the West as well as the East, although in a different fashion - have up until now failed to work up the twelve years of the Third Reich properly, to really go after all the villains and to cleanse the nation once and for all future from this sickest part of its history in order to make the next generations immune to all sorts of totalitarism. Had they / we done this properly instead of wiping large parts under the carpet of oblivion, the present situation would not have arisen.

Regards

Jochen Prien

P.S.: Didn't it all start for many of us more than three decades ago, when Hakenkreuze - swastikas - on plastic scale model aircraft were forbidden by law ? As if this could have the slightest effect when it came to preventing young or older people from becoming Neo-Nazis. But there we go: it only takes denying facts to be politically correct.

[George Hopp]

It all leads back to the simple truth, that Germany - the West as well as the East, although in a different fashion - have up until now failed to work up the twelve years of the Third Reich properly, to really go after all the villains and to cleanse the nation once and for all future from this sickest part of its history in order to make the next generations immune to all sorts of totalitarism.

Such "cleansings" are, of course, the ideal. But, you have only to look at the problems raised in Iraq but the mindless dissolution of the military, and of the political hierachy, to see that using only political or other affiliations to remove people from their duties is not the clever way to move. (The parallels are not perfect, but exist). And, then there were the beginnings of the Cold War,and needs of advanced technology for which certain Germans had the requisite knowledge. But, many caught of late are people like the Pope and Gunther Glass, who served but at low levels, with no effect on policy, and simply served their country as did many others on both sides of the conflict.

[Co de Swart]

Originally Posted by Jochen Prien

Gentlemen,

I don't think that the reaction of the WASt. is the result of some recent development over here in Germany but rather part of an official - albeit not publicly proclaimed - policy that has been going on for quite some time now and is aiming at restricting and eventually suffocating any other than purely scientific interest in the material stored at the official archives.

I have had the same experience with the Bundesarchiv / Bildarchiv over the years; when I first had contact with the BA while researching the history of JG 53 in 1985 I was helped by the staff in a most generous way, was shown around and given hints at not so obvious files where I was supposed to find what I wanted. The prints I acquired then were first class - old style photo paper, technically perfect - and were reasonably priced both as far as the acquisition of the photos as such and the payment of royalties for publication in the books were concerned.

This situation has changed constantly over the years; to cut a long story short, in the end they used plastic paper, let the quality of the prints drop considerably - blurred, too much b/w contrast, not full format - and what was the best - they did not sell the prints any longer but gave them on loan only, to be returned asap and this for prices and costs that were markedly above those where we originally started from. In my opinion all of this is meant to deter people from coming to the BA and trying to use the material that is stored there. This policy was issued higher up, definitely not at the Archive itself, and the situation was tolerable as long as the old staff was still active who knew their customers.

When I complained about this intolerable decrease of service and quality I was told that a) they didn't understand what I was complaining about and b) that they had their regulations which they had strictly to abide by. If there were a change in their services it was only for the benefit of the conservation of their assets which would suffer from extended and multiple use. At the same time they denied that this might be part of a new policy aiming at the German style of Political Correctness.

This is of course only a miniscule part of the overall issue which is that in our country these days everything is done to restrict free access to any sort of document relating to the Third Reich in general and WW II in particular where the official authorities have no control over what the user eventually does with the material he gathered. The growing number of right wing idiots - Neo-Nazis - in our country who might use this sort of material for glorifying the War and especially the Wehrmacht serves as an additional argument for this policy, doubtful or outright wrong as it may be. It all leads back to the simple truth, that Germany - the West as well as the East, although in a different fashion - have up until now failed to work up the twelve years of the Third Reich properly, to really go after all the villains and to cleanse the nation once and for all future from this sickest part of its history in order to make the next generations immune to all sorts of totalitarism. Had they / we done this properly instead of wiping large parts under the carpet of oblivion, the present situation would not have arisen.

Regards

Jochen Prien

P.S.: Didn't it all start for many of us more than three decades ago, when Hakenkreuze - swastikas - on plastic scale model aircraft were forbidden by law ? As if this could have the slightest effect when it came to preventing young or older people from becoming Neo-Nazis. But there we go: it only takes denying facts to be politically correct.

I believe Mr. Prien is coming most close to the cause of this 'change in behaviour' signalled and experienced.
Influences of political changes in Berlin also spread over the present Luftwaffe, see a.o. the removal on Fürstenfeldbrück of street-names related to the frmr.Lw Flugzeugführer of the period 1936-1945 etc. 'Removal' of Tradition in the Lw. could mean denying part of the Lw.- history and even in the end some form of history-falsification.
For the vets-soldiers of that period still with us,, not a very pleasant experience, some even feel themselves driven in the Nazi-corner of having been war-criminals.
Following articles in the FAZ, more or less regularly published there will keep you somehow posted on this subject-related issue.

Co de Swart,
H-historian Airwar WWII, Holland.
But, let's stay away from 'politics' although we meet some of the results in our hobby-work too.

[Rune Rautio]

This is dramatic but not unexpected. Since mid 1980 the German laws to protect individuals have been gradually made more and more restricted. This goes for all archives storing information related to WW2. With WASt there has been at least 2-3 changes in that direction during those years, from easy avialable records in mid 1980 to the nearly total closure now. It is in some way a little odd, as normal archive procedures are often the oposite as time goes by, but here we obviously have an effect of the sharply increased focus on German military archives and German veterans among researchers, historians and others all over the World during the last 10-15 years. I remember a time when I could sit more or less alone in the reading room of BAMA through an entire week, or walk directly in the holdings of WASt and look for records. That is now history and just a memory of an easier past :-)

Rune

[VtwinVince]

I also like the comments of Herr Dr. Prien regarding the arbitrary and ridiculous laws of Germany regarding such things as the displaying of Hakenkreuze. I also think the recent revelations regarding the service of Guenter Grass in the Waffen-SS is just another example of "Waldheimer's Disease", where the sufferer gets old and forgets he was once a "Nazi".

[Jukka Juutinen]

Why this singling out of GERMAN "war criminals"? Why don´t the followers of J.P. have no interest in war crimes committed by others? Why is J.P. advocating a bolshevist approach on historiography (bolshevist approach=the mission of histoarians is to support a certain political agenda instead of being purely objective and neutral)? Why at least 99.99% of war criminals convicted throughout history are Germans? Or does one seriously suggest that at least 99.99% of war criminals of known history are Germans? For me all "war crimes" trials are purely political jokes unless ALL war criminals of ALL nations of ALL times are convicted.

Could it be simply that Germans made the mistake of selecting the wrong victims? After all, one recent American pro-Bush history of the US basically condones the genocide of Indians by calling the victims "barbarians". And these "barbarians" don´t have a multi-billion extortion industry to propagandize their suffering.