Looking for abstracts to von Rohden collection at NARS in the 1960's

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Hi All,
in this context geschlossen means "as a whole". By the way German is my native tougue, so I'm not using those awful on line translators. Additionally I think the word "anzugleidernen" may not be spelled correctly could it be "anzugliedernen"?

You are correct Nick regarding the 4. Staffel explanation.

Regards,
Norbert

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Nick and Norbert,

Thanks for your inputs. Norbert, you did catch me in a typo. The correct word is anzugliedernden. What does this mean and how does it affect the translation?:

"1.) Die durch Umgliederung der IV./JG 54 in eine Me 262 - Jagdgruppe (II./JG 7) freiwerdende 4. Staffel ist geschlossen Gen.Lt. Galland zur Aufstellung einer unter seiner Führung stehenden und dem JG 7 anzugliedernen Jagdstaffel Me 262 zur Verfügung zu stellen."

Robert Forsyth had taken the word geschlossen and interpreted it as follows:

"The use of the verb 'geschlossen' is more interesting, unusual and somewhat extreme! It infers that Galland was 'locked away', 'captive' - which, of course, effectively at that time he was. See also pg 105 of JV 44."

Thus, I was looking for a kinder treatment, but in this vein. It seems to be describing Galland, not the unit he was to set up. But then, the German language puts descriptors in the oddest places, so your interpretation Norbert of "as a whole" might be correct, but would need to be integrated elsewhere in an acceptable translation into English. What a devil of a statement to translate properly!!!

Regards,
Richard

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Richard T. Eger

Robert Forsyth had taken the word geschlossen and interpreted it as follows:

"The use of the verb 'geschlossen' is more interesting, unusual and somewhat extreme! It infers that Galland was 'locked away', 'captive' - which, of course, effectively at that time he was. See also pg 105 of JV 44."

Thus, I was looking for a kinder treatment, but in this vein. It seems to be describing Galland, not the unit he was to set up. But then, the German language puts descriptors in the oddest places, so your interpretation Norbert of "as a whole" might be correct, but would need to be integrated elsewhere in an acceptable translation into English. What a devil of a statement to translate properly!!!

Regards,
Richard

Well Norbert knows what he's talking about, being German (unlike you, me and Robert). In this sentence "geschlossen" is definitely not used an adjective in relation to Galland. If it was it would have a case ending, e.g. "die Staffel ... ist von dem geschlossenen Gen.Lt. Galland ... zur Verfügung zu stellen."

In this sentence it appears in its root form and is therefore an adverb, modifying the verb ("stellen").

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Hi Richard and Nick,
thanks for the kudos. With the correction of "anzugliedern" it implies that the unit is to be attached to the organisational structure of JG 7.

It could read as follows:

Through the reorganisation of IV./JG 54 into a Me 262 fighter group (II./JG 7) the vacated 4th squadron is to be made available in its entirety under the leadership of GenLt. Galland for the formation of a fighter squadron that is attached operationally to JG 7.

I hate those "wurm" sentences that the military used in those days!

Regards,
Norbert

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Nick and Norbert,

Thank you for your very careful interpretive work! I really wasn't looking forward to denigrating Galland, even if the person who wrote this had a proverbial "bug up his ass".

Norbert, taking your interpretation, I'm slightly modifying it to:

"Through the reorganisation of IV./JG 54 into a Me 262 fighter group (II./JG 7), the vacated 4th squadron is to be made available in its entirety under the leadership of GenLt. Galland for the formation of an Me 262 fighter squadron that is attached operationally to JG 7."

Does this sound okay to the two of you?

Thanks to all of you who have assisted in deciphering what this difficult message is really saying.

Regards,
Richard

[Nick Beale]

"Vacated" isn't the word I'd go for in this context:

"The 4. Staffel — made redundant by the conversion of IV./JG 54 to an Me 262 Jagdgruppe (II./JG 7) — is placed, as a whole, at the disposal of Gen.Lt. Galland for the establishment of an Me 262 Jagdstaffel under his leadership and attached to JG 7."

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Nick,
you are the better wordsmith than me. This sounds good.

Regards,
Norbert

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Nick and Norbert,

That sounds good to me, too. It explains the situation regarding the 4. Staffel, which would otherwise be lost.

Hopefully, we've chosen the correct interpretation of "geschlossen". At least we've given it our best, which is all that can be asked for. The intent when writing anything historical is that we capture the true meaning of what was intended, rather than creating false history.

I'm using the abstracts as the frontispiece for each document. The document still remains for subsequent reinterpretation.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear All,

One further thing about the NARA abstracts provided on-line of the T971 von Rohden holdings - they aren't necessarily correct or even close. For instance, I am currently working with document 4376-1218. The T971 abstract states:

Jan. 30- Mar. 13, 1945 – 4376/1218
Verteidigung des deutschen Ostraumes Correspondence and orders concerning air and antiaircraft defensive operations in the eastern territory of the Reich. Also, a list and dates of German camping on all fronts, 1939-45.

About the only thing accurate in the abstract is that there are a fair number of documents involved. As a bit of a clue, here are the titles of the first half dozen:

Nachtjagd zum Schutz Bremens (23.2.45)

Mistel-Abstellplätze (25.2.45)

Stand der Verlegung Kommando Götz nach Italien und Einsatzkommando 1.(F)/3 nach Norwegen (26.2.45)

Zahl Vorlage für Herrn Reichsmarschall (covers a number of subjects) (27.2.45)

Schutz von Sonderflugzeugen (22. or 28.2.45)

I. Vorschlag: sämtliche Jagd-Verbände mit Panzer-Blitz auszurüsten &
II. Vorschlag: SO-Leute mit Strahlern zum Rammen feindlicher Verbandeführer-Flugzeug einzugetzen (27.2.45)

One common thread is the tightness of the dates - late Feb. 1945. I'm still working my way through it. It's going to be tough to find a concise descriptor of what this document is all about.

Regards,
Richard

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Hi Richard,
I cam across the same issues at the Bundesarchiv in Freiburg. At least 30% of the records I looked at contained other documents not pertaining to the contents description.

Regards,
Norbert