HE111 I. D. markings help?

[robinh]

The CY code seems from literature to be the 3rd airplane in the 14th Staffel. Would this seem to indicate the SF unit code to be a larger geschwader?

[robinh]

A google request says that over 7000 HE-111 bombers were produced. Is there any archive that has all records to request a history of a specific He-111 aircraft?

[RT]

All the data known has been given, nd no there is no complete archives, just pièces to put together,
Code SF+CY , is not an unit code but the own code of the plane, unique nd for all is live long, when Merlin says it has been used by the SchleppGr.1 is in ref. of the unusual shape of the letters.

Rémi

[robinh]

Just to summarize for my complete understanding:

He111 H-6 WNr. 4962 was built at Heinkel factory-Rostock in 1942 and assigned the code SF + CY. This code was apparently kept for the operational life of the aircraft and used by unidentified (at this time) groups. The outline of the code letters hint at useage by a school or special use group. The plane appears to have been destroyed on ground before capture at wars end.

Thanks to all for the fun research and great information.

[edNorth]

All except this is part " and used by unidentified (at this time) groups". Not exactly correct. SF+ was never a unit or group code. Period. A good book on Luftwaffe markings at your local library (?) or Interlibrary loan is a must read for you now. There is no He 111 database online, only Luftwaffe Bulletin Board (for German language users) does have Stammkennzeichen database (but quality there is questionable).

You must realize there was Unit Letter System and Stammkennung (besides other code-letter and / or symbols-markings used by fighter schools and the fighter units) = Four basic "systems" (and numerous other "localized" markings or nummerals on fins/rudder). Stammkennung (Stammkennzeichen) as carried by this He 111 H-6 was used (mostly) by ALL other units than the pure fighting units. It was safety code (not a registration (altho it worked in similar ways - I know - I did hold CPL licence for decades) used in radio (eg. morse) and visual communications at airports and there was (supposably) no other plane with same code letters at same time. Some say this was "factory code", but that is really confusion with Factory Ferry codes assigned and used first from year 1937 - and having first two as Factory Letters (eg. JU+xx, HE+xx, DO+xx, FO+xx, WE+xx etc.)

[edwest]

edNorth is correct. There is a database from the now closed Luftwaffe Experten Message Board that can still be accessed by former members, plus some some archives. There was an attempt made, a valiant attempt by dedicated people, to get as many four letter/number, and other Luftwaffe codes listed. Your SF+ code was there but not the CY part.

At this point, unless someone has more information, your aircraft is difficult to identify as to who it operated with. It is true that letter and number shapes showed variations that may point a researcher in the correct direction. Other clues sometimes appear that rely on a good memory, broad knowledge and attention to what may appear to be trivial or subtle details. I've learned a lot but surprises still appear to this day.



Ed

[robinh]

Thank you again for expanding on my understanding.

Maybe it would be safe to say from the SF + CY code that the plane was probably not ever assigned to a typical combat geschwader but was placed in a special use group. The paint type indicates it stayed in the central Europe area and not on the eastern front or mediterrean areas?

[edNorth]

Originally Posted by edwest

edNorth is correct. There is a database from the now closed Luftwaffe Experten Message Board that can still be accessed by former members, plus some some archives.

Some confusion here. I was not referring to that one. The LBB is another, an separate database (in database format), the L(E)MB (RIP) one was just an poorly edited xls in html format.

LBB is here, aka also luftarchiv.de

http://www.luftwaffe-bullet-board.com/viewforum.php?f=2

Seems the database has gone?

[edNorth]

Originally Posted by robinh

Thank you again for expanding on my understanding.

Maybe it would be safe to say from the SF + CY code that the plane was probably not ever assigned to a typical combat geschwader but was placed in a special use group. The paint type indicates it stayed in the central Europe area and not on the eastern front or mediterrean areas?

It seems indeed having previous code painted out. Thus quite the contrary, it could have had Stkz., then unitcode (and many of them!), and again Stkx. etc. before beeing burned.

Example is one Fw 200 Condor that had 8 (eight) times different indentities: Namly W.Nr. 2895 (FW 200 A-03 / S3) D-AMHC, WL-AMHC, F8+HH, TK+BS, D-AMHC, TK+BS, F8+DU, F8+MV.

-Ed

[robinh]

Excuse me for misunderstanding.

It sounded to me that Merlin had records of the aircraft being assigned the code SF + CY from the factory. It now appears that this could have been painted on at any time for a special unit before end of war and aircraft destroyed before capture?