Nice Me 262

[SES]

Hi
Philippe thank you very much. This document is in contradiction to the documentation I posted in post 17 and 22.
Richard I quite agree.
bregds
SES

[PhilippeDM]

Richard, I do agree that late war orders were not always known or carried out tht late during the war.

In the JaPo book covering the KG(J) history (see post 39) it is mentionned that Franz Gapp of KG(J)6 still flew operations according to his Flugbuch on May 6th, 1945. Even on May 8th, Günther Eilhardt of I./KG(J)54 carried a recce and attack mission on ground columns in Me262A 'Weisse.12' and Gapp flew a combat sortie in his 'Rote 7' (KG(J)6) as late as 19:02 strafing columns around Zatec. See p 53-54

[Micke D]

"@SES:
This is "yellow 3" of KG(J)54. The tailband was overpainted with RLM83."???

Which plane are you talking about here? The only "yellow 3" of KG(J) 54 I have seen has no overpainted band.

[PhilippeDM]

Micke, Sorry I think I mixed things here. I meant "Red 3" of KG(J)54. See picture from my own archive:

[Micke D]

Isn't it more probable that this plane is from KG(J) 6, with a red/black band than a plane from KG(J) 54 with the white parts of the blue/white band painted over with RLM 83? That doesn't seems to logical to me.

[RudiS]

Micke D,

have you read post #22?

Regards,
Rudi.

[Micke D]

Yes Rudi I have read post #22!

But I must say that I don't really buy the idea that KG(J) 54 should have painted over the white parts of the bands to tone then down, I think the bands will loose their meaning then and it would have been better to paint over the bands alltogether.

I will try later today to show my ideas about black 11 of KG(J) 54!

[sidney]

With reference to all previous forty-seven posts, I really do not see the aircraft in post No. 1 to be anything but "Black 11" of 8./KG(J) 6. It is hard for me to see how one can overpaint white and blue caro tail band of KG(J) 54 with the RLM 83 or any other camouflage colour to look even remotely similar to the black and red caro tail band of KG(J) 6. I do not see the KG 54 Totenkopf emblem in front of the aircraft windscreen either.

Regards,
Sinisa

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by sidney

I do not see the KG 54 Totenkopf emblem in front of the aircraft windscreen either.

Regards,
Sinisa

Perhaps this comparison will help. The second picture is borrowed (with due acknowledgements) from David E. Brown, Ales Janda, Tomáš Poruba, Jan Vladař: Messerschmitt Me 262s of KG and KG(J) Units (Japo Publishing, 2010). It shows "yellow 2: of KG(J) 54, which did have a blue/white checker incidentally (visible in other photos). In both the photos I have attached the small emblem is painted close to the hole in the fuselage

[sidney]

Post No.49 refers: Thank you for the above comparison. I must accept the possibility that what I saw as the larger caliber weapon battle damage, might in fact have been the small Totenkopf emblem. To try and summarize:

1. There was the KG 54 emblem in front of the windscreen, and the RV band was blue and white overpainted with RLM 83, or some other RLM colour - so the aircraft belonged to KG(J) 54.

2. The KG 54 emblem and RV band chequered red and black - inconclusive (i.e., formerly KG(J) 54 aircraft with KG(J) 6, or vice versa)

3. No KG 54 emblem, just a battle damage, and the RV band chequered red and black - KG(J) 6

4. No KG 54 emblem, just another battle damage, and the RV band chequered blue and white, and painted over with RLM 83,or some other RLM colour - KG(J) 54.

Regards,
Sinisa