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| Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
3rd June 2016, 15:19
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Andreas, thank you again!
It is too early to make a final conclusion but undoubtedly the tables with losses in some books like "Strategy to defeat" by Williamson Murray etc should be corrected. Best regards, Andrey 
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#2
3rd June 2016, 15:43
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Rémi,
Thanks for this link. What you actually see is a WNF built Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 511 8x9 "Schwarze 1", from an unknown training unit, possibly found at Schleissheim in May 1945. other pics can be seen here: www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/8037252924 http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...n/photostream/ Cheers Marc
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#3
5th June 2016, 09:47
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
better: Ju 52/3mg4e --- the "little" german "m" is an Russian "t" and the German "g" is an Russian "d"
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#4
5th June 2016, 11:44
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Quote:
But Andreas try to show the Russian records "as is". Best regards, Andrey
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#5
5th June 2016, 12:49
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Hallo, all!
Yes - I am trying to write these lists up, albeit with the latin characters, as they were recorded by the Soviet intelligence service. Regards, Andreas B
__________________
Ahhh... but I have seen the holy grail! And it is painted RLM 76 all over with a large Mickey Mouse on the side, there is a familiar pilot in front of it and it has an Erla Haube!
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#6
5th June 2016, 16:37
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Page 6 has 13 entries, and I refer to them by the model etc as written by the Soviets. I have not altered the records to show information from the new source yet:
64. Ju-52/3M D-8-E WNr 7521: Not identified 65. Me-109F4 TROP WNr 8769: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=146014 66. Me 109G-2 WNr 13597: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=143692 67. Me 109G-2 WNr 13621: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=112121 68. Me-109E1 U-1 WNr 2941: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=142555 69. Hs 123: Not identified 70. DO-17-Z WNr 4249: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=147675 71. Me-109C/1 E-7 WNr 3014: Not identified 72. Me 109F-4/Trop WNr 8799: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=147133 73. Me-109 F 4 R 1 WNr 13339: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=147541 74. Me 109E-7 WNr 4899: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=142573 75. Me-109 F 4-Z WNr 7624: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=148823 http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=147393 76. Fiziler-156 C3 TROP WNr 5468: http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=147842 http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=143779 Regards, Andreas B
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Ahhh... but I have seen the holy grail! And it is painted RLM 76 all over with a large Mickey Mouse on the side, there is a familiar pilot in front of it and it has an Erla Haube! Last edited by Andreas Brekken; 6th June 2016 at 00:12. Reason: Updated information/spelling
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#7
5th June 2016, 16:41
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
#65: recording Russian report it was W.Nr.8769 not 8764 and an "F" (how I can read)
#70, 75: the Russian letter is an "Z" (like I've learned in the school)
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#8
5th June 2016, 19:02
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
It would had be greatly smarter, than our russian friends translate all the commentary , preferable to let Andreas try to make it with a dictionnary
Rémi
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#9
5th June 2016, 19:58
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Quote:
"без моторов" = without motors "без мотора" = without motor Other significant comments: Item 43: remains of tail part [of plane] Item 47: fore part of stub plane Item 50: tail part Item 51: tail part Item 52: stub plane Item 53: stub plane Item 61: stub plane, fore part decomposed Item 63: fore part decomposed Item 69: fore part decomposed Item 70: stub plane only, without fuselage Other remarks are worded description of the emblems mainly. Column 5 - Manufacturer of plane Column 8 - Modification of the motor Column 11 - Manufacturer of motors Best regards, Andrey Last edited by Andrey Kuznetsov; 5th June 2016 at 20:03. Reason: Addition
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#10
5th June 2016, 23:02
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Re: List from TsAMO of 99 (!) German warplanes and 22 motors captured at the Chir (Tschir) station (Stalingrad area)
Hello all,
What a great conversation this has become; Lots of new data. Now a question for our experts: can anyone translate the Cyrillic script under aircraft #5, column 11? I am interested in the Motor manufacturer of DB 601 A-1 30109. Thank you in advance. Steve Sheflin
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