Photo USAAF Aircraft

[musec04]

Hello,


Currently on ebay are a number of photos of early war aircraft from the collection of a US Marine named Hicks,although the majority of the photos are Army aircraft. Representative is this flightline of Boeing P-26


https://www.ebay.com/itm/39595281225...QAAOSw19VnShnu



All the photos can be found here


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_dkr...+hawii&_sop=10



Regards,


Clint

[twocee]

There is one obvious Navy aircraft in the collection, the Douglas R2D-1,9621, at Floyd Bennett, New York.

This aircraft entered service with the Marines in October 1938 and was dbr in an accident on 2 March 1940, so it is possible that Hicks was serving on the East Coast at that time, possibly moving to Hawaii in 1941.

The final photo, with the Grumman Hellcats, must be 1943/4.

[Stig Jarlevik]

The seller states all photos are from 1942-43 which obviously is wrong.

I am also surprised to see basically all aircraft carrying such old markings and wonder if most
of those are rather from the 1940-41 period? Or was Hawaii very late to implement the new
marking system?

Also George, do you have anything on the R3D coded 7?

Cheers
Stig

[twocee]

I wonder whether it might be a Hickam-based US Army DC-2?

[Buckeye30]

Stig. the tail designators can date the photos; Nov. 1937 to May 1940 letters for unit role over a/c number eg. in the photos B-18 marked "BE" over 49 was a/c 49 from the 5th BG (E is 5th letter, B =bomber); A-12 marked "AR" over 54 was a/c 54 from the 18th Attack Sqn. (R = 18th letter). A-12 "KR" over 16 was a/c 16 from the 18th Air Base Sqn., "K" = ABS.
From May 1940 to camouflaging in 1941 a simplified system, ie. a/c number over unit and role; eg. P-26 no.41 over 18PG. in the photo = 18th Pursuit. Date 1940 with full command colours, stripes and Sqn. insignia, and not yet painted.

Some Army planes on Dec.7 were still not camouflaged.


Nick

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Nick

Yes I have that, hence my surprise the photos should be dated 1942-43.
No idea if Hawaii was extremely late in changing to the new system or not....

Cheers
Stig

[Buckeye30]

Stig. Some of the planes not delivered camouflaged from the factory from 1940 like P-40s and B-17s were in the process of being painted when designators would have been revised (ie. low-vis). I thought you might like this official account which includes SERIALS in the Maintainance Records!

Regards
Nick


https://media.defense.gov/2010/Sep/1...100917-040.pdf

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Nick

I am not talking about the colours used. I am talking about the markings.
At some point the USAAF began to show the tail numbers (s/n) instead of the unit code on the fin.

By 1942 (if the seller is correct) all USAAF aircraft should have been marked in that way.

That is why I think that most photos are from the 1940-41 period unless USAAF in Hawaii was
exceptionally late to adhere to the new policy/marking rules.

Cheers
Stig

[Buckeye30]

The tail marking was changed to showing the serial (radio call) on 28 Oct. 1941 in T.O.07-1-1A though recommended previously in April and August by Maintainance Command; not much time to re-paint before Dec.7 (assuming they had paint stocks). The planes in Clint's photos have 4-position wing stars which were reduced to top left-bottom right on 22 Oct. 1940 (Spec. 24114) when camouflage was also introduced--which was speeded-up after PH.

Photos most likely before then, sometime in 1940 as you thought except for a couple.


Regards
Nick

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Nick

Just the details I wanted in writing!!!
Now where shall I store that info so I remember it to next time....hmmm?

Cheers
Stig