List of DB 605A engine construction numbers?

[schwarze-man]

Sorry to jump back in,

I can be very specific about the DB 605 A overhaul requirements because they are laid down in three different original German documents.
It is fair to say that "this is the DB 605 AS, not the DB 605 A" but, the documentation for the DB 605 AS says that, it is "the DB 605 A fitted with a DB 603 A supercharger". Actually, this is not precisely correct either.
Nonetheless, the original DB 605 AS documentation specifically lists the DB 605 A information as applicable, including the DB 605 AS parts list that is only an addendum to the DB 605 A parts list, to which it refers.
There is more information about this but, I am interested if you have a confirmation if the Finnish engine life was;
"100 hours to major overhaul and only two cycles allowed (maximum 200 hours running time)" ?
The German servicing cycle was much different to this.

Cheers

SM

[Tony Kambic]

MM44643 engine ( DB601) is on MM9476.

Just about the stamping on MM44643 is another number: NC 0517


Steve, you know where I got this I trust.

Tony

[schwarze-man]

Great info Tony. From the C.202 I believe. That number is very close to some of those in the post #112 from Tanzebau. The additional stamping NC 0517 might have a relationship to the local production numbering.

Cheers

SM

[Matti Salonen]

The Finnish Air Force normally followed the OEM established maintenance schedule. They also used the basic information in D.Luft. 3605A – B, but in locally modified form.
In Finland for DB 605 there was a 110 hours limit for a partial overhaul and 220 hours limit for complete overhaul.

Because in Finland engine running time was calculated adding test runs and ground operations to the flight time we used a life-extension based on condition of the equipment (established on a case-by-case basis, maximum 25 % for engines and 10 % for airframes).

If in the Luftwaffe system only flight time was noted in the engine running time, the Finnish model would not differ much of the Luftwaffe system especially, when D.Luft. 3605A – B does not state an exact overhaul limit but is somewhat flexible: “Nach etwa 100 Betriebsstunden” for series 0 and “Nach etwa 200 Betriebsstunden” for series 1. How much “etwa” means in running hours?

From our point of view it seems that in D.Luft. 3605A – B specified limits are a general basic rule and in real life that was interpreted by different repair shops on a case-by-case basis depending on the engine series, modification status and condition.

We have over 220 original DB 605 A –engine Lebenslaufakten in our Air Force Museum and they give a good although limited view of the repair methodology of DB 605 in Germany.
- For example 25776, which in the beginning had 100/2 overhaul limit, after repair in Germany got a new limit 75/2. (Does this mean that this engine should be sent to repair shop for partial overhaul after only 37,5 hours in the aircraft?)
- 26887 was originally DB 605 B-1 and had in the beginning an overhaul limit 75/2. It was modified to A-1 in 22.01.1943 and probably got the normal overhaul limit 100/2
- a new 76136 got in 29.01.1942 50 hour running time, but after overhaul at 56 hours in 19.09.1943 it got allowable running time up to 253 hours (overhaul limit 200 hours)
- 76782 had got in the beginning an overhaul limit 100/2, but after overhaul at 56 hours running time in 02.12.1942 it got a new allowable running time up to 252 hours (overhaul limit 200 hours). Then after a new overhaul at 125 hours in 29.07.1944 it got a new allowable running time up to 321 hours (again overhaul limit 200 hours).

According to our interpretation 100/2 in those documents means two 100 hour periods, but if you have a document, which confirms other meaning, we’ll be happy to accept that.

Unfortunately we have not yet found any document covering the content of the partial overhaul. At least it cannot be done in the fighting unit, but the engine has to be sent to a repair shop. During the war we have not found in Finnish Bf 109 any engine removal due to partial overhaul requirement, but all removals have been due to a crash or engine damage. Some of these engines had after that a partial and some complete overhaul at the Luftwaffe or Finnish repair shop.

These Lebenslaufakten include some interesting engines.
- 78874 was originally built in November 1942 as DB 628 V19 and used only 4,5 hours before being sent to overhaul. During the overhaul it was modified to DB 605 A-1 standard and got a new allowable running time up to 204 hours (overhaul limit 200 hours). This engine was sent to Finland in February 1944
- 007 00003 was similar case
- 100079 was built in July 1942 as DB 605 X and seems to have been part of DB 610. Was used in He 177 A-3, Werk.-Nr. 355065, but sent for overhaul 12.02.1943 after only 8h55’. During overhaul it was modified to DB 605 A-1
- 21077 was similar case.

DB 605 engine family has been very interesting and it would deserve an exhaustive study.

Matti

[Dénes Bernád]

Excellent overview, Matti! Especially your last sentence is noteworthy. I would gladly co-operate with a team who sets this goal, to be materialised in a book.

[schwarze-man]

Originally Posted by Matti Salonen

The Finnish Air Force normally followed the OEM established maintenance schedule. They also used the basic information in D.Luft. 3605A – B, but in locally modified form.
In Finland for DB 605 there was a 110 hours limit for a partial overhaul and 220 hours limit for complete overhaul.

Because in Finland engine running time was calculated adding test runs and ground operations to the flight time we used a life-extension based on condition of the equipment (established on a case-by-case basis, maximum 25 % for engines and 10 % for airframes).

If in the Luftwaffe system only flight time was noted in the engine running time, the Finnish model would not differ much of the Luftwaffe system especially, when D.Luft. 3605A – B does not state an exact overhaul limit but is somewhat flexible: “Nach etwa 100 Betriebsstunden” for series 0 and “Nach etwa 200 Betriebsstunden” for series 1. How much “etwa” means in running hours?

From our point of view it seems that in D.Luft. 3605A – B specified limits are a general basic rule and in real life that was interpreted by different repair shops on a case-by-case basis depending on the engine series, modification status and condition.

We have over 220 original DB 605 A –engine Lebenslaufakten in our Air Force Museum and they give a good although limited view of the repair methodology of DB 605 in Germany.
- For example 25776, which in the beginning had 100/2 overhaul limit, after repair in Germany got a new limit 75/2. (Does this mean that this engine should be sent to repair shop for partial overhaul after only 37,5 hours in the aircraft?)
- 26887 was originally DB 605 B-1 and had in the beginning an overhaul limit 75/2. It was modified to A-1 in 22.01.1943 and probably got the normal overhaul limit 100/2
- a new 76136 got in 29.01.1942 50 hour running time, but after overhaul at 56 hours in 19.09.1943 it got allowable running time up to 253 hours (overhaul limit 200 hours)
- 76782 had got in the beginning an overhaul limit 100/2, but after overhaul at 56 hours running time in 02.12.1942 it got a new allowable running time up to 252 hours (overhaul limit 200 hours). Then after a new overhaul at 125 hours in 29.07.1944 it got a new allowable running time up to 321 hours (again overhaul limit 200 hours).

According to our interpretation 100/2 in those documents means two 100 hour periods, but if you have a document, which confirms other meaning, we’ll be happy to accept that.

Unfortunately we have not yet found any document covering the content of the partial overhaul. At least it cannot be done in the fighting unit, but the engine has to be sent to a repair shop. During the war we have not found in Finnish Bf 109 any engine removal due to partial overhaul requirement, but all removals have been due to a crash or engine damage. Some of these engines had after that a partial and some complete overhaul at the Luftwaffe or Finnish repair shop.

These Lebenslaufakten include some interesting engines.
- 78874 was originally built in November 1942 as DB 628 V19 and used only 4,5 hours before being sent to overhaul. During the overhaul it was modified to DB 605 A-1 standard and got a new allowable running time up to 204 hours (overhaul limit 200 hours). This engine was sent to Finland in February 1944
- 007 00003 was similar case
- 100079 was built in July 1942 as DB 605 X and seems to have been part of DB 610. Was used in He 177 A-3, Werk.-Nr. 355065, but sent for overhaul 12.02.1943 after only 8h55’. During overhaul it was modified to DB 605 A-1
- 21077 was similar case.

DB 605 engine family has been very interesting and it would deserve an exhaustive study.

Matti

Yes, Thank you Matti for a good reply.
I can answer with the German information that I have in a few days, and I have many answers for you.
It is great that you have so much detail of the individual engines. I think this must be very rare. I don't know of any German individual DB 605 engine records with such detail, unless anyone has knowledge of this? I presume that the records of the Finnish Air Force engines are more complete?
The production of DB 605 engines from the DB 610 units was quite considerable, as there were a lot of them available. However, usually the rebuilt engine had a different firing order, inherited from the DB 610. The RH "605 W" component would also need rebuilding with a complete replacement rear gearcase etc as that was a complete mirror-image assembly when fitted as a DB 610 unit.
So, I will answer your points ASAP.

Cheers

Chris

[schwarze-man]

Hi Matti,

Sorry to be slow responding. I will try to answer your points. First thing is that the German system is laid down in a fairly straightforward way but, the actual way that engine serviceability worked-out was more complicated. Also, I am not a German language specialist so, please forgive any mistakes!
The basis of my information is the interpretation of DB605 servicing for modern certification, using the original DB requirements.
Firstly, the overall servicing documentation was reasonably straightforward when the DB605 was first produced in 1941/42. The complicated engine had several levels of SERVICING documentation. Firstly, the D.(Luft) T. 3605 A-B, 0 u. 1 Handbuch covers the engine in moderate detail, including a servicing schedule. Here we find the engine has the 0 (zero) series and 1 (one) series. the 0 series are the early production that has a short servicing period. The 1 series is main production and has a servicing period about twice the 0 series.
Both series have the same daily, before flight and every 12.5 hour servicing.
Next, we find that the servicing at every 25 hours includes an oil change for the 0 series and a common, for both series, list of servicing items.
The schedule then introduces the concept of Teil-uberholung and Grund-uberholung (part-overhaul and full-overhaul) with the Grund-uberholung being nominal 100 hours for 0 series and 200 hours for 1 series. The Teil-uberholung being at half life and, the 1 series having an additional list of servicing at 50 hours ( where the 0 series has a Teil-uberholung).
Here, in the Handbuch, there are lists of work to be done, but the detail of the work is in a different document, the D.(Luft) T. 3605 A-B, 0 u. 1 Beiheft 1 Instandsetzungsvorscriften (Overhaul procedures).
I will continue in the next installment.

Cheers

SM

[schwarze-man]

The Instandsetzungsvorscriften (I will call this the Instand) is a large technical document that covers in detail the servicing and overhaul of the Motor. It describes the scope of the work that can be done "at the Front" (possibly unit based), the work for Teil-uberholung (at overhaul centres) and, the Grunduberholung (at the DB "Works"). Please note, the overhauling system may have differed in reality but the definition of the work and the level of the unit that could undertake the work is established.
The detail in the Instand is quite high. Interestingly, the scope of the Teiluberholung is quite considerable. Not surprisingly, the Grunduberholung includes all the Teiluberholung work and, gets the engine fully dismantled with the conrods removed, the crankshaft removed, the rear gearcase removed etc, and all dismantled for overhaul.
I do not wish to write all this out here, but, as an indication of the level of the Teiluberholung, it includes the cylinderblocks removed and pistons removed for examination.
So, the Instandsetzungsvorscriften is the complete "overhaul manual" that includes all normal DB servicing of the engine.
Some items, such as the Injection pump, are not covered to full dismantling or reconditioning because they are very specialised.
Overal, there is a lot of information in the Instand.
The next document is also very interesting, the Reparatur Anleitung DB 605 A-B and I will cover that next.

Cheers

SM

[schwarze-man]

Incidentally, For anyone interested in the DB605, I strongly recommend buying the CD of DB605 documents from Udo Hafner Archiv. For 59Euro it includes a large amount of technical documents that you can print, or watch on PC.
The compilation includes the documents, Handbuch, Instand and Reparatur Anleitung. To note, just the Instand is 263 odd pages. All docs are clear and all in German.

SM

[HGabor]

Hi folks,

A new number: DB 605A/1 engine, WNr. 25 552 was installed on Bf 109G-2 WNr. 13497.


Cheers,

Gabor