Oxhöft abgeschossener deutscher Jäger

[crolick]

Dear friends,

on one of the Polish forums I have found following image:


As one can see it presumably depicts destroyed German fighter shot down over Oksywie (part of Gdynia) in September 1939. Since I'm not the specialist in the matter can anyone confirm or deny that the description is correct?!

One of my friends is claiming that this is Ju.87 hence I have compared the marking on the wing (which can be clearly seen on the foreground) with photos of Bf.109 and Ju.87 and I think it 'fits' much better to Bf.109 wing then Ju.87. But as I said earlier I'm greenhorn in the matter hence I would love to know opinion of the specialists!


Regards,
Andrzej

[Leendert]

Andrzej,

Is following link helpful? http://www.dws.org.pl/viewtopic.php?...7381&start=100

In one of the answers it seems they're talking about a Ju-87 at Oksywie on 1-9-1939, but you'll understand the text better than I do!

Regards,

Leendert

[crolick]

Hello Leendert,

yes it might be Ju.87 downed on 1 IX 39 but the problem is that as far as I know it crashed in the swamps while the background does not look like.

Anyway I would love to know whether it is possible from this photo identify if it is Ju.87 or Bf.109 and not matching downed planes with known losses. I presume there must have been some differences between those to planes which can confirm if it is either Ju.87 or Bf.109.


Regards,
Andrzej

[robert]

And which Bf109 crashed on the 1.9.39 in Oksywie? And why 1.9.39? This loss, documented by posted photo, occurred on the 14.09.39.

Regards

Robert

[Dénes Bernád]

To me, the underwing cross is much smaller than those applied on Stukas. I would not venture to guess the a/c type, though.

[crolick]

Robert nobody is claiming that this is Bf.1939 downed on 1 IX 1939.

Though this is definitely not plane of Rummel and Blunk. Please notice that in Emmerling's book (vol. III, p. 148) one can read that German recco planes discovered on 15 IX wreckage of Ju.87 100 meters from the beach in the water near village of Lazarett (probably error in translation - I presume we are talking about Polish lazaret in Babie Doly). So the description given by Germans of 14 IX does not fit the picture given above.

I had exactly the same feeling as Dénes but like I said earlier I'm not the specialist and I would like to know what specialist think about it.

[robert]

Yes,

but in the same book you have 2 other photos of this plane, lying down on the ground beside the road. I have one additional photo and all four of them (including yours) showing the same plane, which I already mentioned.

Regards

Robert

[crolick]

Yes two of those are in Emmerling book and the wreckage is shown lying close to the road. While in the picture above plane is lying only on grass. There is no sign of the road. This is what caused me to think we are talking about two different planes.

Could you please post your fourth picture to confirm that we are talking about the same plane?



Anyway one thing is sure - either reports of German recco were false (and Ju.87 did not crash into the water) either Marius is false claiming that his two pictures depicts plane downed on 14 IX. If former then what was the wreckage they have reported?!

[robert]

Hi,

my photo was taken by a person standing on the road and behind the wreck is a quite large ditch with other building far behind the ditch. Your photo also shows part of this road, which is running in left upper corner closer and closer to this wreck (but passing it in distance of few meters). The grass was later trampled by people and soldiers which visited the crash-site.

Regards

Robert