3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940

[Andy Saunders]

According to Ultra transcripts an aircraft of "3(F)121" flew an operation on 7 August 1940 from 0630 to 1100. The aircraft was 7A+GL.

Can anyone confirm:

From where the operation was flown.
The objective.
The aircraft type.

[robert]

Hi,

Ju 88 recon mission over south-western English coast.

Regards

Robert

[Larry deZeng]

From where the operation was flown.

3.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 121 was based at Dinard on that date.

[Andy Saunders]

Thank you both!

My next (related!) question is:

On the 7 August 1940 the Luftwaffe flew either bombing, recce or mining operations in the Thames Estuary area.

Does anyone have any knowledge of the type and number of missions flown, the timings thereof and the units/aircraft involved?

[Larry Hickey]

Andy,

This will be in our Heinrich Weiss "Coastal War" manuscript for that date, which Robert S. is translating for the EOE WG. We aren't finished with that date yet, but I'm sure that he'll chime in here with the info that you need from the original German text. Weiss is very complete about this sort of thing for that period.

Regards,

[Andy Saunders]

Larry

Thanks greatly!

At present I am trying to make some sense of fragmented details from some ULTRA transcripts. Lots of interesting stuff there.

I am especially interested in Convoy CW9 on 8 Aug 1940 and the associated air actions running from 7 August when the convoy formed-up off Southend.

Previous sources have claimed that the convoy was detected (at night) by Freya radar at Cap Gris Nez as it passed through the Dover Straits. I am by no means certain this was the case, and not certain that Freya was yet operational there. To me it seems more likely the convoy was picked up pre and post assembly by aerial recconaissance - but I am yet to be persuaded either way!

I will, of course, keep you in mind for any snippets or nuggets for EOE.

[Peter Cornwell]

Andy,

According to Heinrich Weiss' narrative for August 7, 1940, 'At 19.30 hours the observer station at Wissant reported a large convoy about 5 sea miles south of Dungeness heading west. This was the English Channel convoy CW9 the first of its kind since the unfortunate CW8 of previous days. It had sailed that afternoon from the Thames with 25 ships mostly colliers. Off Sheerness it collected 9 RN trawlers some of which carried captive barrage balloons for the first time'.

I'm sure that Robert will add to this if my German has let me down. There seems to have been nothing specific picked up by 7 aerial reconnaissance sorties made by Luftflotte 2 that morning but I will send you the details as I suspect that they may refer to ships gathering to form CW9.

An 06.10 start by 3.(F)/121 was a Ju88 tasked with reconnaissance over south-west England and the Bristol Channel especially Falmouth, Milford Haven, and Swansea. Mission was aborted early due to 10/10 cloud cover of the area.

[Chris Goss]

A 3/31 ac operating in the same area reported quite a lot of shipping 0715-0740 hrs

[Peter Cornwell]

Chris,

Just so, Luftflotte 3 tasked 2 Do17Ps of 3.(F)/31 that started at 6.10 hours to recce Falmouth and shipping in LQ 15W/50,60,70.

[Andy Saunders]

Originally Posted by Peter Cornwell

Chris,

Just so, Luftflotte 3 tasked 2 Do17Ps of 3.(F)/31 that started at 6.10 hours to recce Falmouth and shipping in LQ 15W/50,60,70.

All interesting stuff, and thank you one and all for adding to what I have.

The two Dornier 17's were (according to ULTRA) apparently 5D+EL and PH+NX (???) the latter sounding rather like factory codes to me, but I stand to be corrected! Either way, 5D+EL was tasked to recce shipping in squares 50,60 and 70 and PH+NX was to recce shipping in Falmouth harbour.

On the 8th we also have 3.(F)/31 sending out 5D+HL for a similar mission at 05.00 and another (5D+KL) recce to 50/60/70 to check Falmouth and weather and taking off at 16.30.

There is some difference in the timings you quote, Peter, (06.10 as opposed to 04.10) and I am wondering if this might be explained by the various use of German (Central European) and British times here? It was getting light around 05.00 (British time) just as a point of interest, but the timings do in any event throw up a question that further examination of Ultra would have probably eventually answered for me; that is, what times were being used in Ultra? Were the transcripts "converted" to British time? Equally, what time is being used by Heinrich Weiss and EOE?

Nick Beale might be best placed to answer the question about ULTRA timings.

I am still hopeful that we will get some absolute confirmation that a L/W unit observed CW9 assembling in the Thames Estuary during the day on 7 August.