New photo of a well known Fw 190 D9

[Rémi Baudru]

Bonjour à tous,

A new photo of a well known Fw 190 D9

http://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEUG...item58bbc30a72

Regards.
Rémi

[PhilippeDM]

Fw 190 D-9 <II+ Stab. JG2 WNr unknown Rhein Main 1945 see Crandall - 'The Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Dora' - Vol. 1 p.192-199

[sidney]

Here http://www.mission4today.com/index.p...printertopic=1 is a link to the discussion on the above Fw190D-9, with some excerpts from the various books. According to those, the aircraft actually belonged to Stab/JG 4.

Regards,
Sinisa

[PhilippeDM]

Was studying further...

@ Steve,
I think you are mixing up 2 airplanes: both are <II+ and the one you refer to is not WNr. 210194 but Fw 190 D-9 <II+ Stab. JG2 WNr unknown Rhein Main 1945 see Crandall - 'The Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Dora' - Vol. 1 p.192-199. The picture above is from a later period, I think, as the headrest and the turbo intake are missing, opposed to some pictures of Crandall's series.
In Larger & Deboeck 'Focke-Wulf Fw 190D Camouflage & Markings - Part II' p. 334-338 the same aircraft is discussed.

The other one is also shown in Crandalls book, p.78-79 and is referred as Fw 190 D-9 <II+ Stabsschwarm I./JG 2 - 1 January 1945 in Dorf, Germany, and in Fw. Werner Hohenberg or in Larger & Deboeck book p.113-115.

Pictures of this aircraft are too small to distinguish better the engine cowlings and the area arround the exhaust where an Adlerflügel should be drawn.

@ Sinisa: I definitely opt for JG2 on both options...

[sidney]

Post No.5: Steve, if it is of any consolation, the excerpts from the literature provided are just different opinion on the matter.

Post No.6: Phillipe, JG 2 was the so-called "Frontgeschwader", and it is not necessarily proven that it actually applied the Reichsverteidigung (RV) band on its aircraft, although it did have one allocated to it. Thus, what you see as the yellow-white-yellow RV band of JG 2, I see as the faded black-white-black RV band of JG 4.

Regards,
Sinisa

[PhilippeDM]

Post 7: @Sinisa: Sinisa, do you have the books I mentionned in my earlier post (#6)? They are full of airplanes with yellow white yellow - JG2 RV bands - including those two. Even an extract from the I./JG 2 operations' record prove the operational use of the band on JG 2. see annex.
(written specification: '<||+ |g|w|g|' or Gelbe Weiss Gelbe of Yellow White Yellow)
Source Japo Vol. 1 p 114

[sidney]

Post No.8: Phillipe, no, I cannot say that I have those books at hand, so I cannot comment on them. Perhaps some other TOCH members can make their observations on the subject?

As for the handwritten observation '<||+ |G|W|G|', that I would not take as the definitive proof of the RV band usage with JG 2. Some over-zealous researcher might have added the note in the post-WW2 period, matching the entries with their own understanding of the subject. Note the confirmation marks at every entry.

Just my opinion. Since I have nothing further to add, I disengage from further discussion on the subject at this point.

Regards,
Sinisa

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by sidney

Post No.6: JG 2 was the so-called "Frontgeschwader", and it is not necessarily proven that it actually applied the Reichsverteidigung (RV) band on its aircraft, although it did have one allocated to it.
Regards,
Sinisa

The idea of Reichsverteidigung bands originated (I believe) in a series of 1960s books by Karl Ries and was his interpretation of the photo evidence he had. My own research leads me to think that the late-war bands were allocated as part of the planning for the »Große Schlag« operation envisaged for November 1944. Their purpose is described as "better recognition in the air" (e.g. for assembling or reassembling a large formation of fighters).

It's worth noting that JG 5 aircraft in Norway carried recognition bands, despite not defending the Reich. The use of JG's yellow/white/yellow bands is confirmed by Allied reports on crashed and captured aircraft; also the other Western Front units, JG 26, 27 and 53 carried bands.

[sidney]

Post No.10: Nick, thank you for the clarification/confirmation on the usage of the JG 2 RV (or the late-war identification bands). The usage of these identification bands with JG 26, JG 27 and JG 53 is I believe well documented. I was not sure about JG 2 though.

Regards,
Sinisa

[Schlageter]

I think JG2 was one of the units which applied the RVB bands most consistently, not only to Fw190D-9 but also to FW190A-8 (see Roger Gaemperle's "Vintage Eagle") and of course to their II. Gruppe's Bf 109 as well!

Best

Michael