The loss of 2 or 3 SB near Tarnawica Leśna on 17.09.39???

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

The loss of 2 or 3 SB near Tarnawica Leśna on 17.09.39???

During the Russian invasion of Poland in September were almost no dog fighting. It is known to couple such episodes. One of the more mysterious is a battle fought on 17 September 1939 in the morning near the station Tarnawica Leśna, near Stanislaviv Nadwórna (Ukrainian Front). According to Polish sources in the morning, at 7:45 Polish time, zvieno of “3 DB-3” dropped eight bombs "40 kg" to the railway station Tarnawica Leśna . Then bombers attacked two Polish fighters "PZL P.7". All three Soviet aircraft had been shot down by Polish fighter/s. Two Soviet planes were burned by the crew on the ground, who then fled to the forest, while the third plane with observer killed force landed and was not burnt. Poles took prisoner the injured pilot. Then the pilot was rushed to the hospital in Nadwórna, where he was questioned by Polish soldiers.

Unfortunately, it is not known from which Polish units were attacking fighters, it is not known the name of the winning crews/pilot. The fact that such a struggle took place comes from round witnesses – Poles: soldiers and civils.

Maybe someone reading in Russian sources described the dogfight?

regards
mw

[robert]

Hi Mirek,

they were not SB-2s. You can find more in Lukasz Lydzba`s articel.

Regards

Robert

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

I know the articel and I know personaly an author. BTW he also used my articles/book in his material. Łukasz knows, that I can not agree with him.

His assumptions are wrong in my opinion. No way for shot down 3 SSS (or R-5Sz) from 51. AB by Tadeusz Koc. It is wrong. I had written about this case in 2008 too, so I could not mixed different duels. See: my "Czerwone gwiazdy..." 2008, pp. 84-86, and pp.86-88.

PS
1. 3 SSS had took of at 11:30 Moscow time to the mission, and you may see the time of combat in his article over Tarnawica, it was to long distance time.

2. There is a large difference between "DB-3" or SB and "R-5" (or SSS/R-5Sz). Tupolev SB is much more similar to Iliuszyn DB-3 from long distance then to R-5. No DB-3s were used in combat over Poland in 1939.

Łukasz goes wrong way.

Regards,
mw

[robert]

They took off, landed or attacked at 11.30 hrs (Polish time 09.30 hrs)?
There are also some reports of Polish AAA units about this combat.
No way that the Russian planes could be SB-2.

Regards

Robert

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Took off at 11:30 plus add about at least 30 minutes transit time to get to Polish target (it could be about 10:00 a.m. Polish time). Later these 2 of 3 SSS were founded and one was still missing.

Not SB-2 but SB (Tupolev bomber). It could be SBs for example from 10. DRAE, why not?

Soviet had used a lot of SBs in combat over Poland. On 17.09.39 over Ukrainian Front was done 236 combat missions by SBs crews.

Łukasz used two reports/memories of Polish A/A officers as a "confirmation" of his assumption, but it is wrong. Read them carefuly and read carefuly his material! Nothing fits.

mw

[robert]

Please tell me where exactly you have read that 11.30 hrs is takeoff time?
I have many accounts of Polish soldiers from this area and they only recall about Soviet attacks in the morning.
1 SSS is missing and this fits to the victory claimed by Koc.
Where you have read that two other SSS were found? (I think that their crews were found and not the aircraft).

Regards

Robert

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

T. Koc or Kotz according his own memory (form 2005) did not open fire to any Soviet plane, he saw one not 3. I have written about this case in my book in 2008.

I have too his combat report form France (1939 or 1940), when he admitted to shot down one Soviet plane, this is also mentioned in my book.

If you want to belive in his success, you may belive, you are welcome.

Some people belive in UFO and Elvis Presley is still alive too. It is OK, but I do not have to belive in UFO and living E. Presley and victory of T. Koc.

This information was printed in Poland 19 years ago (exactly is on p. 54) , if you have good sources you should have it?

BTW on 17.09. early morning, near Stanisławów had operated 10. SBAP on SB's bombers.

mw