Last combat of Egon Mayer

[Monaco]

According to Fortier, Norman (2003). An Ace of the Eighth. New York: Ballantine Books. ISBN 978-0-89141-806-1, Egon Mayer fought his last battle against a P-47 pilot of 355th FG, Lt W. Gresham, but this is questionable.
I read this on a Wiki entry and have not Fortier´s book and do not know how he comes to his conclusion (apparently a gun camera footage).
Here is the info I gathered:
Stab of JG.2 took off from Cormeilles with 4 Fw.190s around 1105h and landed at 1230h with the loss of 1 Fw.190 (ref: Caldwell) , that was Egon Mayer´s Fw 190 A-6 (W.Nr. 470 468) (ref: http://www.luftwaffe.cz/mayer.html). The claim by Lieutenant Walter Gresham of the 358th Fighter Squadron of the 355th Fighter Group was made at 1420h and was SE Chaleroi (ref: Olynyk, p.40). Charleroi is located some 170km NNW Montmédy. Gresham´s combat report mentions no bail out of the german pilot after his combat between 15,000-12,000ft (ref: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...m-2march44.jpg).
I would suggest Mayer was in combat with Maj Robert L. Coffey of the staff flight from 365th Fighter Group claimed 1 Fw.190 W of Luxembourg (70km E of Montmésdy) at 1145h (ref: Olynyk, p.40). The other claims by 9th AF and 8th AF fighters where at other locations and other times. For Coffey it was the first of 6 victories credited to him.
Can anyone add his knowledge to this case? Does anyone have the gun camera footage?
Thanks in advance
Monaco

[Nick Beale]

I don't think you said what date this all was!

[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

I am sure that the date was 2 March 1944. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

[Monaco]

Oh sorry, I thought was well-known, 02.03.44 is correct! Thanks for the response.

[aquarya]

Ace of the Eighth, p. 122 - "The 358th had a good day on March 2 when they encountered two FW-190's near Charleroi and three Me-109's near Liege. The 190s were diving away when 1st Lt. Walt Gresham managed to hit the leader with a long-range, high deflection shot that blew up the aircraft and killed the pilot. Lieutenant Roscoe Fussel and Lt. Larry Dudley caught up with the other 190 and took turns getting hits on it until the pilot bailed out. It was later established, with gun-camera film and the recollections of the wingman who bailed out, that the FW-190 destroyed by Gresham was piloted by the great German ace Egon Mayer, the Luftwaffe's top B-17 killer."

I also have questions/concerns.

1) Apparently, only Mayer was lost, so who was this wingman who supposedly parachuted out, and why isn't he named in the book, if the evidence turns on his testimony?

2) I just pulled the gun cam footage of Walter Gresham at NARAII - incredibly it has survived - it shows a FW190 flying peacefully in a curve ahead - and although the camera shakes as Gresham fires burst after burst after burst no strikes can be seen, no fire, no smoke, no explosion, nothing, absolutely nothing. The plane does NOT take any violent evasive action but does seem to steepen its curve, which means that it is quite possible that the pilot is incapacitated, or is extremely inexperienced, but there is no explosion. The plane is far too far away to determine any unit markings. I could hardly believe that Mayer would continue to curve left when an American P-47 is approaching and shooting him from the left rear.

JG2 eyewitnesses found Mayer dead in an unburned plane which had crashed for unknown reasons. He had no visibly apparent bullet/shrapnel wounds.

The time/location discrepancies, description of explosion, plus the question about the wingman and the lack of apparent kill on the gun cam footage casts a long shadow over this account by Norman Fortier.

If you would like me to send you a copy of the gun cam footage video, please pm me.

All my best,

heather

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

According to "La guerre aérienne au-dessus du département des Ardennes Vol: 2 (Janvier 1944 - Juin 1944" (ISBN 9782912775283) by French fellow researchers Françoise and Pierre ROGER, MAYER found his end at hamlet Iré-les-Prés near Montmédy. Eye-witnesses seem to credit the crash-landing in a clearing.
Combats occured well far from Charleroi as I have investigated another JG 2 crash (pilot safe by chute) in that area.
I would be interested by the footage.
Matching claims vs losses is another story.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by aquarya

Ace of the Eighth, p. 122 - "The 358th had a good day on March 2 when they encountered two FW-190's near Charleroi and three Me-109's near Liege. The 190s were diving away when 1st Lt. Walt Gresham managed to hit the leader with a long-range, high deflection shot that blew up the aircraft and killed the pilot. Lieutenant Roscoe Fussel and Lt. Larry Dudley caught up with the other 190 and took turns getting hits on it until the pilot bailed out. It was later established, with gun-camera film and the recollections of the wingman who bailed out, that the FW-190 destroyed by Gresham was piloted by the great German ace Egon Mayer, the Luftwaffe's top B-17 killer."

I also have questions/concerns.

1) Apparently, only Mayer was lost, so who was this wingman who supposedly parachuted out, and why isn't he named in the book, if the evidence turns on his testimony?

2) I just pulled the gun cam footage of Walter Gresham at NARAII - incredibly it has survived - it shows a FW190 flying peacefully in a curve ahead - and although the camera shakes as Gresham fires burst after burst after burst no strikes can be seen, no fire, no smoke, no explosion, nothing, absolutely nothing. The plane does NOT take any violent evasive action but does seem to steepen its curve, which means that it is quite possible that the pilot is incapacitated, or is extremely inexperienced, but there is no explosion. The plane is far too far away to determine any unit markings. I could hardly believe that Mayer would continue to curve left when an American P-47 is approaching and shooting him from the left rear.

JG2 eyewitnesses found Mayer dead in an unburned plane which had crashed for unknown reasons. He had no visibly apparent bullet/shrapnel wounds.

The time/location discrepancies, description of explosion, plus the question about the wingman and the lack of apparent kill on the gun cam footage casts a long shadow over this account by Norman Fortier.

If you would like me to send you a copy of the gun cam footage video, please pm me.

All my best,

heather

I'm not sure you have the correct footage. In the gun camera film I have (somewhere) from the original film copied to VHS, the FW 190 is in a diving left turn, pulling G's, and Gresham's burst hit the 20mm ammo (by the location and subsequent explosion) which blew off the 190's left wing (~50%). The 190 snap rolled left, nearly corrected, but couldn't sustain it and the 190 continued to snap roll left out of control.

I interviewed Colonel Gresham in 1978 concerning this action. He was unaware that his victory credit was being associated with Egon Meyer but his recollection was that the pursuit went to the Fumars area, starting from southeast of Charleroi and moving northeast.

[aquarya]

I'm still a long way away from looking at all the records on this date (I'm working to confirm all of Mayer's kills and obtaining all the records of those who flew against him - this is quite a lot of material from the American side at least, and I'll be pulling all the records from Kew in a couple of weeks), so I'm afraid I can't contribute much yet to this topic. It is a bit intriguing, isn't it?

I'm happy to send over the gun cam footage but it's 76MB so we'll have to use Dropbox or some other method, just let me know.... It's labelled correctly on the title slide, but it does blur at the end. I also pulled it off 35mm film....I'd be very happy if you would allow me a look at your footage if you can find it.

Also, considering Egon landed with plane and body intact, it doesn't seem like it would be such a good match with a violent kill as described by Gresham here. Planes that lose (partial) wings and go into death spirals tend to have a very horrific effect on the bodies inside when they crash based on the IDPF's from American bomber crews killed by Mayer that I've been reading..

[drgondog]

Gresham's film shows a violently maneuvering FW 190 taking deflection shots from approximately 300 yards, hits visibly in left wing root and outboard of fuselage, explosion approximately where the 20mm ammo is stored, wing shearing outboard of ammo storage, violent snap roll left, slowed and almost under control - then loss of control and uncontrollable left roll. end of film.

If that is Not what you have seen you have the wrong film segment. 358FS Walter Gresham, 355FG March 2, 1944.

[aquarya]

I have attached a screen shot of the lead-in on the footage in the hopes that it alleviates some of the confusion. Also, I have been able to load up the gun cam footage to a webpage: http://www.ww2historyproject.org/research/