Vichy-French navy NAA-57

[Skyraider3D]

Once I came across this image (Ebay?) and have a few questions about it:




Does anybody know...

- what unit the NAA-57s belonged to?
- where this photo was taken (North Africa?)
- if French Navy NAA-57s had any codes (matricule) underneath their wings?
- what colour the bottom half of the cowling is (on both SR-11 and SR-12)?
- what colour the dark (SR-12) NAA-57 is?
- what has happened with the rear cockpit (blind flying equipment?)

[O.Menu]

Hi,

I also copy this image. The caption say:

Frejus (France) Dec42, training center: one LN 401 or 411, one Bloch 151, two MS 230 and two LeO H257bis and two NAA of course

[Ruy Horta]

The divebomber looks great, pretty rare, or am I mistaking?

[O.Menu]

after a look to my books...

SR fuselage marking stand for "CEPA" unit, at Frejus-St Raphaël.

CEPA is for: Commission d'Expérimentation Pratique de l'Aéronautique.

It's a unit from the French "Aéronautique Navale" not yet "Aéronavale".

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks for the info!


Not sure how rare the dive bomber was... not seen it much in Vichy colours for sure!

[CJE]

It's one of the last survivors. If I remember well (having seen that photo on eBay.de a couple of years ago) it is a L-N.40 (and not a L-N.401 or 411).

The Matricules were only used by the Air Force.

No idea what colour is the dark NAA-57, probably dark grey (Navy grey)?
All these planes were used for various tests.

[Ruy Horta]

Thanks Chris!

I always imagined the LN to be bigger, but it looks failry small compared to the Bloch and NAs.

Interesting mix of aircraft, thanks Skyraider.

[CJE]

Well, gents, I'm always confused when a querry regarding the Vichy Air Force is posted on the Luftwaffe/Axis board. Whatever one may think about Vichy, its fascist régime and its anti-Jewish laws, it was not an Axis power. The Vichy Air Force fought against the same enemies than the Germans, but never along the Germans or Italian and never under Axis command.

To be fair, I'd probably be as confused if it was posted on the Allied board!
Let's try the Japanese board?

[Ruy Horta]

It may be a can of worms, but I agree that if anything Vichy isn't an Axis power, not even allied to the Axis.

Vichy is something tragic, something born from military defeat, fear for the Front Populaire and even fear the mutiny of 1917 and the comune of 1870/71.

It is fascism, but in the tradionalist - conservative form, not the revolutionary Italo-German type. As such its closer to regimes as they were in Spain, Portugal and most of South America.

Maybe we need a separate forum for Vichy?

[Lucien]

- what unit the NAA-57s belonged to?

Those a/c belong to the CEP (Centre d’entraînement au pilotage – Flying training center) stationed in Fréjus – Saint-Raphaël. It was a French Naval Air Arm (Aéronautique navale) unit and is not to be confused with the CEPA (Centre d’expérimentations pratiques de l’aviation) which was a test unit and was disbanded in August 1940. It can be puzzling all right because their a/c were wearing the same “SR” letter codes.

- where this photo was taken (North Africa?)

No, in Fréjus – Saint-Raphaël, in the south-east of France, right after the invasion ou the southern part of the country by the Germans in November 1942.

- if French Navy NAA-57s had any codes (matricule) underneath their wings?

French naval a/c never wore “matricules militaires”. However, some could be seen on recentely transfered a/c from Armée de l’Air.

- what colour the bottom half of the cowling is (on both SR-11 and SR-12)?

Most probably aluminium.

- what colour the dark (SR-12) NAA-57 is?

Dark blue grey on the upper surfaces, light blue grey ont the uder surfaces. Those colours where in use in the French Naval Air Arm since 1924.

- what has happened with the rear cockpit (blind flying equipment ?)?

Yes, most probably.

In addition :
- The Loire-Nieuport dive bomber which can be seen on this picture is the LN 40 Nr 1 (the only one without “chin radiator”).
- The white bands around the fuselages where made compulsory by the Germans after the anglo-american landings in North Africa of November 8th 1942. They replaced the roundels which could be mistaken with RAF/FAA ones. This measure did not last very long because, as mentioned previously, the southern part of France was invaded by the Germans at the end of the mont and all French military units (so called Vichy forces), were subsequentely disbanded.
- Although captured by the Germans, all those a/c were later relinquished to the Italians who ferried some to their country (Caudron Goéland, Potez 63.11, MS 406, LN 40 & 401). Those did not include LeO H257Bis, MS 230, NAA 57 and Bloch 151 which were destroyed “in situ” sometimes in 1943.