crash B-17 F , 42-30636

[manniw]

I am doing research on the crash of the B-17, 42-30636 on March 2, 1944 in Sieglar near Siegburg/Germany. The entire crew was killed.
Various sources state that the cause of the crash was “shot down by enemy fighter”. However, I cannot find any relevant documents or information about this. I only have the German daily report of the flak, which documents a shot at a B-17 near Sieglar at 1:04 p.m. According to KU-1040, the crash occurred at 1:00 p.m. Both times are roughly correct.
All the fighter shooting data is completely wrong. Does anyone have any information that could confirm that the B-17 was ultimately shot down by a fighter?
Thank you for your help, says the Luftkriegsarchiv-Koeln.de.
Manni

[edwest2]

Hello,


A word of caution. Nothing is final until all research is completed. I suggest getting the MACR for this incident.


30636 (MSN 5750) Amarillo Field, TX 2Jul43. North Atlantic Wing, Air Transport Command, Presque Isle Field, ME 17Aug43. 327th Bomb Squadron [UX*Y], 92nd Bomb Group, Alconbury (Station 102), Huntingdonshire 31Aug43. Failed to return from a mission to the railway marshalling yards at Frankfurt am Main, Germany 2Mar44 (10KIA). Shot down by enemy fighters, crashed between Sieglar & Siegburg, Germany. MACR 2853.

Source: joebaugher.com

[manniw]

Hi edwest2,
I have already searched through everything, MACR, Flak reports, archives in Siegburg and everything else I could find about the crew on the web. But nowhere could I find an answer as to whether the B-17 was really shot down by a fighter. I am now ready to believe that someone has made this claim at some point and everyone else has written it off. I've been doing this for a few years and have seen it happen several times.... That's why I asked the experts here. And that's why I can only agree with your warning.
Greetings
Manni

[Buckeye30]

Hi Manni. This is the 92nd mission report for 2 March Mission 244; as you see she was "believed" shot down by Flak. Not seen to be followed down by fighters.......


Nick


https://www.92ndbg.org/wp-content/up...ion-Report.pdf

[manniw]

Hi Nick,
thanks for the mission report. Unfortunately, it doesn't really tell us anything other than that it's “probable” that it was shot down by flak....
Thanks again,
Manni

[edwest2]

Originally Posted by Buckeye30

Hi Manni. This is the 92nd mission report for 2 March Mission 244; as you see she was "believed" shot down by Flak. Not seen to be followed down by fighters.......


Nick


https://www.92ndbg.org/wp-content/up...ion-Report.pdf

Given the uncertainty and the mention of cloud cover, this one may remain unknown as to the actual cause. A typical mission includes multiple aircraft and if flak was seen, a tentative conclusion of flak as the reason for the loss. However, just because flak was encountered, there is still a chance that enemy aircraft were there who may have also taken advantage of cloud cover to operate.

[FrankieS]

Hi, all,



is the exact crash site known ? (asking just for my U.S. MACR Excel crash database).
I suppose Troisdorf or Menden (as situated 'between Sieglar and Siegburg') ?
bye,


FrankieS

[Rottler]

Hello FrankieS,

the exact crash site was the west exit of Sieglar (Westausgang von Sieglar), so neither Troisdorf nor Menden.
Source: a blank of the Fliegerhorstkommandantur Köln-Ostheim dated 4 March 1944 in the German file KU 1040.
There are also noted:
crash time of a Boing Fortress II 13.00 hrs on 2 March 1944;
markings and serial unknown,
kind of capture (flak or fighter) unknown,
destruction 98%.

Regards
Leo

[manniw]

Hi Frankie,


which is the exact crash site:
Sieglar, at the intersection of Flachtenstrasse and Grabenstrasse. “The plane exploded on impact and burned out completely. Eight occupants of the aircraft could be identified, who were so badly burned that they were no longer recognizable as human beings”
Source: Eyewitness report on the crash, Troisdorf city archive B-2946



greetings Manni

[manniw]

Dear all,


many thanks to all of you for your information
Manni