Crash of Me 110, Wknr 3385

[paul peters]

Is there anybody on this board who could tell me the cause of the crash and the name of the Bordschutze of Me 110, Wknr 3385 of 2/NJG2, which crashed near Capelle (Neth) on October 15th, 1940?
Tia,
Paul

[John Vasco]

W. Nr. 3385, a Bf 110 D coded 3M+AH of 4./NJG 2, crashed on 17/10/40 following a combat sortie. The crew of Oblt. Paul Zimmermann (pilot) and Gefr. Walter Makowski (Bordfunker) were both killed.

[paul peters]

John,
According the Namentliche Verlust Meldung Zimmerman and Makowski crashed near Dongen (Neth)on 17 October 1940. They were the crew of Ju 88, Wnr 0251, R4+EL, 4/I/NJG2.
Paul

[John Vasco]

Paul,

Not according to Peter Cornwell's records, who is a member of this board. Perhaps he can clarify things if he sees this thread.

[Peter Cornwell]

Paul,

The GQM Returns confirm that Oberlt Paul ZIMMERMANN and ANO were both killed in a landing accident at Capelle in Bf110D (3385) 3M+AH of 4./NJG2 on 27 October 1940.

The NVM of 4./NJG2 confirms that Oberlt Paul ZIMMERMANN and Gefr Walter MAKOWSKI were killed at Dongen on return from a sortie on this date. They are now both buried at Ysselsteyn military cemetery (graves 172-1-1 and 2).

The Chefveldwachter of Loonopzand reported that the aircraft crashed and burned out on the borders of Dongen, Sprang-Capelle, and Loonopzand and further confirms that Oberlt Paul ZIMMERMANN and Gefr Walter MAKOWSKY were both killed.

The Ju88C-2 (0251) R4+EL that you cite is clearly recorded in the GQM Returns as 20% damaged in a crash-landing at Gilze-Rijn on this date with no crew casualties.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

First the date confusion... both 15.10.1940, 17.10.1940 and 27.10.1940 have been used in previous postings in this thread.

According to the following records from the GenQu6Abt, the losses occured on 17.10.1940:

Bf 110
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=115513

Ju 88
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=115514

I am curious about the posting made by Paul Peters, as he states that the NVM refers to the crew of Obltn. Zimmermann as being in the Ju 88C-2... is it possible for you to check this reference again, Paul?

Regards,
Andreas B

[John Beaman]

John and Peter:

I would be the last to question you guys about 110s, but I am now really confused. Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol. 11 has 3385 with 30% damage on 23-Aug-42 in Russia from flak damage. Would this be a bad entry?

[paul peters]

Gentlemen,
We are discussing two crashes. About place and date our opinions can not differ I think.
1) Sprang-Capelle 15/10/40
2) Dongen 17/10/40

Ad 1. At 22.00hrs an a/c crashed in Sprang-Capelle. Police-officer Keijnemans found the pilot, whose left arm was injured. The arm was treated by Dr. Winkelman. The pilot's name was Ernst Schulz. The pilot told that his gunner had bailed out three km before.
In Chronik I./NJG2 by Heinz Rokker: 15.10.40, Bf 110 D-3, A2+BL, Wnr 3812
Besatzung nicht bekannt, wahrscheinlich unverletzt.
Aus unbekannnten Grunden bei SPANG-DAHLEM abgesturtzt. (100%)
Besatzung ist wahrscheinlichlich mit dem Falllschirm abgesprungen.
Is it possible that Sprang-Capelle is corrupted in Spang-Dahlem?
Ad 2) Dongen 17/10/40
The NVM mentions Dongen and the names of Zimmermann and Makowski.
The data of the a/c are written. Unfortunately I cannot ask who wrote these data, as the man who provided the NVM has passed away. It seems that I did not do a good job.
Rokker says (in brief):
Me 110 D-0, 3M+AH Wnr 3385
Nach Einsatz in der Nachtjagd (Capelle) bei Dongen todlich abgesturtzt.

Still my question: who was the second man in Sprang-Capelle?
Paul

[gogh]

For Andreas Brekken

Capelle is used more times. Whe have also
Capelle a/d Yssel

its confusing when you write only Capelle.

Better is Sprang-Capelle wich is the official name

Regards Peter van Gogh

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

Remember that this is the location as given by the official record. I have about 70000 of these for the frontline units and have not been able to cross-check every one of them.

My pragmatic approach is to enhance the records as I get information related to them as from you now, and you will see that the record has already been updated.

Regards,
Andreas