Friendly fire WWII

[Bruce Dennis]

Pretty good chance, and I can show you the original source for the Oklahoma atrocity.
TTFN,
Bruce

[Adriano Baumgartner]

BRIAN,
Found this one, although I am sure you do have it....
Fantastic subject you will be writing on...we will be waiting for the series...
Yours
Adriano
Here it goes:
Wilhelm Steinmann was born on 15 January 1912 at Nürnberg. He joined the Luftwaffe in 1936 and trained as a bomber pilot. Steinmann served with 3./KG 53 from 1939 to 1941. He later served as Technischer Offizier with II./Fliegerkorps. He then underwent conversion training to become a fighter pilot. On 6 October 1942, Steinmann was posted to the Gruppenstab of I./JG 27 based on the Channel front. He was serving with 3./JG 27 when he recorded his first victory on 18 May 1943, a RAF Typhoon fighter-bomber shot down over the Channel. On 1 June, Steinmann claimed a RAF Spitfire shot down. However, he had made a mistake in identification and had shot down a Bf 109 G-6 flown by the Gruppenkommandeur of I./JG 27, Hauptmann Erich Hohagen (56 victories, RK). Hohagen was forced to bail out of his Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 16 391) but had been wounded in the incident.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Found this one today, while searching Google News for crash details in Canada

On 17 July 1943 a RCAF aircraft bombed an outdoor dance at Roseland, Manitoba, believing he was over a bombing range. A young girl was killed.

Source (1943 newspapers):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...aircraft&hl=en

[Brian]

Thanks Adriano and Laurent

Excellent material. Keep 'em coming!

Cheers
Brian

[Observer1940]

Hello Brian
One for your book, it now appears from my research that one of the two RAF Whitleys which crashed into a balloon 15th August 1940 near Eastleigh was involved in a friendly fire incident before the collision and crash.

14-15 August 1940 Headquarters No.4 Group

Two aircraft fouled balloon cables and crashed on return, one aircraft shot at by friendly aircraft but no damage. The other aircraft having engine and intercom trouble.

I have traced the "other aircraft" okay in the Squadron and Station ORBs and also the No.4 Group Signal in the appendices regarding Whitley P4982 which hit the balloon barrage of 956 Squadron Langley, HQ Colnbrook.

Whitley P5044
However, the Signal for Whitley P5044 is missing in the No.4 Group Appendices.

I have had two 'phone conversations with a Mr Stenhouse in New Zealand who learnt from an August 1940 AA Battery Commander that Captain Stenhouse who is commemorated at Fawley, Hampshire was shot down and I have had another conversation with a family relative of the crew who learnt after the war from a former Serviceman in the area that the Whitley crew buried at Fawley All Saints had been in an incident and only just made it back before crashing.

I have the last 16 miles sound track plotted, the height given the Winchester Centre was 10,000 feet, but the plane [later given as a British Plane] lost height and crashed into the Balloon Barrage at Eastleigh 03.30 (RAF 924 Balloon Squadron time); 03.34 hours 35th AA Brigade / 5th Div AA HQ time and 03.35 hrs the Observer Post time.

"Ms" is entered against the C of I number on the Flying Accident Card which meant the Inquiry was "Incomplete".
Cause "F6" meaning "Loss of control after hitting or avoiding obstacles in bad visibility" was ruled out and changed to "F9" meaning "Obscure".
"F8" meaning “Miscellaneous” (was later in 1940, split into F8A - Airframe Defects and F8B - Miscellaneous).
Finally "F4" which meant "Flying into ground, sea or hills in cloud or fog" was given as the primary cause.

These being standard RAF Flying Accident Cause Groupings for analysis purposes by Air Ministry Department S4, "F" meant the accident occurred whilst "In Flight"

It would appear that the Eastleigh Balloon Barrage was being likened to a hill and the cable was struck almost immediately after the Whitley descended out of the cloud base. However, exactly what happened before Eastleigh has been a family mystery for 70 years, the Air Ministry only told the family that they flew up Southampton Water, crossed the coast near Southampton and struck a balloon over Eastleigh, but according to the sound plots they had already crossed the coast and were first plotted near Fareham, by the Observer Post. The Members of the Observer Posts at Havant; Lee on Solent and Marchwood were all called in to the Winchester Centre later in the day.

“Red Flares” a visual sign of an aircraft sending a wireless Distress signal were seen South-east of Sandown, IOW at 03.23 before the crash. Incidentally, the Balloon Barrages were raised at 03.22 hrs. The GPO Log of Casualty Calls indicates Niton received an SOS from an unknown aircraft. The August 1940 Monthly Returns of Distress Broadcasts to aircraft flying over the sea, from the GPO Director of Wireless Telegraphy to the Air Ministry indicates RAF Gosport requested Niton transmit a “Distress Broadcast” to an aircraft. Unfortunately, neither documents note the time, or any details.

The Accident was reported to the AIB (Accidents Investigation Branch) and recorded on their "U" Index which meant that there was either one, or more of the following:
Forced parachute descent
(a) Where a Court of Inquiry is to be convened under KR (Kings Regulations) 1326
(b) where the accident may in the opinion of the CO be due to:-
(i) failure of any part of the aircraft
(ii) a defect in workmanship, design or material
(iii) a part of the aircraft catching fire in the air
(iv) compass defects
(v) any obscure cause

I have tried AVIA 5/19 and 42 and only discovered that the "U" accidents list were investigated by the AIB, a few other examples I found included structural failure, catching fire and one due to bad weather.

Has anyone come across any other information about this incident in their searches at The National Archives, or have any other sources of information please?
Research by Mark R. Hood 2010.
Grandson of the Observer Sgt Hood

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hi Brian, a new case (for me), and an Italian one, with details (sadly in Italian language, but Google translated enough for me to check it may interest you)

An Italian transport BA.44 flying from Albania shot down by CR.42 on 15 April 1941: http://quandogliaereiavevanolelica.m...operativa.html

[Brian]

Thanks Mark - I do have this incident recorded (I have also been following your posts). But thanks all the same.

Thanks Laurent - yes, a completely new one for me also. Very grateful for your continued help.

Cheers
Brian

[Observer1940]

Originally Posted by Observer1940

Hello Brian
One for your book, it now appears from my research that one of the two RAF Whitleys which crashed into a balloon 15th August 1940 near Eastleigh was involved in a friendly fire incident before the collision and crash.

14-15 August 1940 Headquarters No.4 Group

Two aircraft fouled balloon cables and crashed on return, one aircraft shot at by friendly aircraft but no damage. The other aircraft having engine and intercom trouble.

I have traced the "other aircraft" okay in the Squadron and Station ORBs and also the No.4 Group Signal in the appendices regarding Whitley P4982 which hit the balloon barrage of 956 Squadron Langley, HQ Colnbrook.

Whitley P5044
However, the Signal reporting Whitley P5044 is missing in the No.4 Group Appendices.

Above quote shortened.

Going through the paperwork sent to the family back in 1940 and my Grandfather's brother has written to the RAF Records Office to discover more about the circumstances, relating to the loss of his brother Sgt Claude L. G. Hood.

The letter acknowledgement from the RAF Records Office regarding the Whitley of Captain Stenhouse, has been sent with the Service Number reference of another Airman (not one of the Whitley crew), saying that they will get the Squadron to respond direct. Shortly afterward, a letter arrives, from 77 Squadron, RAF Topcliffe signed by F/Lt. D Goudie (or F/Lt. O Goudie), about hitting a balloon cable.

Fire in Air.
The term 'fire on impact' does not always mean when hitting the ground, in other accidents impact means the collision with trees, cable etc. Therefore, 'Fire in Air' suggests on fire before impact with the cable.

Also locally although they knew a balloon collision was involved, locals were told Whitley P5044 had been hit by enemy action and the daughter of the adjacent house observed events after the crash. One crew member is recorded differently in The Times Casualty List.

However, a check of the files in AIR 14 indicates that none of the No. 4 Group 22 Whitleys were lost due to enemy action on that Op. The No. 4 Group ORB only refers to a friendly fire incident.

This accident is also one of the so called balloon collisions, which does not have a surviving Balloon Centre & Balloon Command written report in the files.

Anyway, regarding this letter being sent to our family later in 1940, off the file of another RAF Serviceman's reference, I have traced this number (and confirmed using AIR 78) to another pilot.

Research is continuing.

Regards Mark

[Darius]

Hello,

no time for searching ;-)

KTB Skl for 23.05.1944

In der Nacht zum 23. schossen MS-Boote niedrig fliegendes Flugzeug vor Le Havre ab, später als eigenes Flugzeug festgestellt, hatte zu spät ES geschossen. Ein Mann gerettet.

You know the type & unit of this aircraft?

Greetings

Darius

I am trying to find information about a friendly fire incident during which my late father's C.O. was killed, maybe someone could help.

He was;

Christopher James Croasdale Bowen, B. 1915 New Zealand.

Major, 612 F.S. R.E. 11th Armoured Division, 1941-44 KIA 1.9.44 Harbarcq, France.

From CWGC;

BOWEN, CHRISTOPHER JAMES CROASDAILE Rank: Major. Service No: 63533. Date of Death: 01/09/1944. Age: 29.
Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Offr. Cdg. 612 Field Sqn.
Grave Reference: Plot 4. Row AA. Grave 1. Cemetery: AUBIGNY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION.
Additional Information:B.A. (Cantab.). Son of Charles Henry Croasdaile Bowen and of Frances Sybil Bowen (nee Danson), of Selborne, Hampshire; husband of Helen Florence Anderton Bowen (nee Lyon), of Selborne.


The entry for the Field Squadron War Diary for 1.9.44 reads;

Harbarcq. 1.9.1944. 1900 hrs (approx.) Maj. Bowen set out for Div. H.Q.to visit C.R.E. at Aubigny 3408 en route his Jeep was attacked by Br. fighter aircraft. Maj. Bowen was killed. Profound shock to the whole Sqn which he had commanded for almost 3 years (since October 1941)

I have located some more details from a French village website for Aubigny, amongst which the attackers were 'two aggressive Spitfires' however it would be helpful if I could narrow down the A/C operations for that day. I do realise this might well be a big ask and may well mean I need to check some Ops Diaries at Kew, I live in Yorkshire too, but I really have no idea where to start I might just end up groping in the 'dark'!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Peter