Late war Bf 109 pictures source

[Smith]

Gentlemen

I follow this thread with great interest and am delighted by this latest photo courtesy the 57th Bomb Wing. If it's not too much to ask, may I ask for your insights into the colours found on this aircraft?

I'm not expert in the way you are, so please forgive my possibly elementary questions.
1) Is it correct to assume this airframe started it's life in Luftwaffe service? Is the underlying camouflage one of the various manufacturer's normal schemes?
2) The blue/grey overpaint of the Balkenkreuz as Chris notes above - looks to my untrained eye bluer than 76? Or might that just be the resolution of the film or screens we view it through?
3) It looks to me (does it to you?) that the oil cooler, the vertical stabiliser, and the panels in front and behind the cockpit are possibly all from the same batch of 75 as the fuselage band?

Many thanks, regards Don

[cproyston]

Dan,

Some, short/sort of, answers to your questions:
1) Maybe - it certainly wore Luftwaffe markings before the Croatian ones - photos of the upper wings show overpainted Balkenkreuz and it's camouflage matches that of other MTT Regensberg Bf 109G-14/ASs in the 78X XXX wnr block - see Marc's excellent Flickr repo for more: https://www.flickr.com/photos/280920...57625414158747
2) It's not RLM76, it's darker - it could just have been any grey they had available. The previously yellow(?) band in front of the empennage looks a good match for RLM74 seen elsewhere on the airframe.
3) Not sure what you're saying/asking here, but (under all the overpainting and yellow theatre markings) the airframe is in a (consistent for this batch of 109s) scheme of RLM74/75/76 with RLM 75/83 fin, again see Marc's flickr for more examples.

Hope this helps,
Chris

[ouidjat]

83? Certainely not. RLM83 was a Dark Blue as demonstrated elsewhere.
Regards,
Franck.

[cproyston]

Well I guess what I meant was whatever the dark green that used to be known as RLM83, and that was used in combination with RLM75, particularly on these prefabricated tail assemblies, is now called.
cheers,
Chris

edit - found it, Don, please substitute my (erroneous) RLM83 above with a ‘Dark Green RLM81 variation’

[Smith]

Thanks Chris & Franck

[Marc-André Haldimann]

And for today's eye's pleasure,

this original scan from the negative made by Lt. C. J. Woods, 4 May 1945, at Bad Zwischenhahn from an Erla built Bf 109 G-10 in its typical late war low visibility two green splinter scheme.It is already published since 1989 by Carl Hildebrandt in his Broken Eagles, p. 4. Any ideas for its W.Nr. ?

Current archive: C. J. Woods. Army Numerical, Northwest Europe. Department of National Defence. Library and Archives Canada, e999917495-u /

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lac-ba...-oreTUf-obM8jT

Cheers
Marc

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi there Gang,

We know of "Schwarze 7", seen at Hildesheim thanks to this photo offered on eBay 11 June 2018:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/280920...7687193053794/

Two new photos of "Schwarze 7" are on offer currently. The skin damage pattern ascertains this is indeed the same machine, as found at Fl.Pl. Hildesheim:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...2/274531706474
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...9/274531704978

Though quite frustrating as no W.Nr. can be seen, we have IMHO an Erla built Bf 109 G-14 sporting a camouflage pattern seen on the W.Nr. 463xxx - 464xxx block.

The Technical intelligence Report no A-371 dated 7 May 1945 reports 48 airframes at Fl.Pl. Hildesheim, inspected 29 April 1945. Among them are five Erla built Bf 109 G-14's:
- W.Nr. 463178
- W.Nr. 464062
- W.Nr. 464248
- W.Nr. 464266
- W.Nr. 464337

As no tactical markings were recorded, there is no way knowing which machine is seen on those three photos, alas. As for the unit, 6./, 7./ and 8./JG 105 were all based at Hildesheim until disbanded 15 March 1945. There is thus a reasonable assumption "Schwarze 7" with its II Gruppe bar is a 6./JG 105 plane.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Thanks to new evidences brought to my attention by Mato Lion,

We now know conclusively the above mentioned plane is actually Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 150853 "Schwarze 7".

Cheers
Marc

[ouidjat]

Report A-371 cited by Michael Balss says a G-10, WNr.150853 was found at Fl.Pl. Hildesheim. That's all.
All Gustav of JG105 accidented at this place belonged to 7. Staffel.
On 4/02/1945 II./JG105 was transfered to Stab JG103 and disbanded on 15/03/1945.
Last, I'm not convinced II./JG105 got Bf 109 G-10s ... But why not?
Regards,
Franck.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi there Franck,

Indeed, the G-10 trail seems to be a cold one as revealed by another photo made by Charlie Lewett, RAF, in 1945. This other photo does reveal a left rear-engine curved panel... An Mtt built Bf 109 G-14/AS makes more sense from all those features - though we don't have any registered at Hildesheim.

As for the parent unit, I concur about 7./JG 105 losses, to which we can add also two 8./JG 105 losses whilst based at Hildesheim, W.Nr. 464264 on 16 Feb. 45 and W.Nr. 412667 on 19 Feb 45.

Cheers
Marc