JG 51 victories (Part 2)

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Monaco

Oh, that´s from a french site:
Spas Demensk, the number = number of victory, 111 = 1 shared for each of the three

Ahh
They could have fooled me....
Cheers
Stig

[kirche]

Originally Posted by Monaco

After this blow to morale GC Normandie was attached to 18 GIAP (Mayor Golubov), seeing more combat and morale improved despite the fact that in May low-level ground attacks had to be flown and another pilot was lost. Replacements arrived in time when the regiment was down to 10 pilots. It seems that GC Normandie was attached to 303 IAD (Gen. Zakharov) in June 1943 in preparation of the Battle for Orel.

on 13.04.1943 - it was directly subordinate to 1 VA (in the documents as "1 separate fighter squadron of Fighting France")
21.04.1943 - it was first mentioned in the Journal of Combat Operations 303 IAD as an independent unit (AE "Normandiya"). In the documents 1 VA continued to be indicated as an independent unit. That is, the squadron was transferred to the operational subordination of a larger unit of the 1st VA, but legally it was subordinated to the army.Normandy was not considered as part of the 18 GIAP. She also flew combat missions together with other regiments of the 303 IAD
In mid-July 1943, it was listed in the army lists as an independent unit, not being part of the 303 IAD.

[@irnimal]

Going through 3 VA's Loss Records found something :
15 October 42
235 ShAP sent some Il-2s (probably a couple, not sure, haven't found Combat Reports) on an armed Recon. Mission of German troops, in the Nikitinka area (about 14km NW of Kholm-Zhirkovskiy, some 28km SE of Belyy), Smolensk Oblast. They lost 2 pilots.
Don't know the time of the mission, but if it coincides with the German claims, them they were victims of Ltn. Maximilian Mayerl [9/JG 51] and Fw. Günther Schack [7/JG 51], who claimed an il-2 apiece (their 32nd and 18th claims respectively). These were the only clains made in the area throughout the day.
- Politruk Petr Ivanovich Ushakov, Mia (Deputy Commander for Political Affairs)
- Leytenant Anatoliy Semenovich Il'yashenko, Mia.

[Courtois Laurent]

Some others identified kill

10.04.1943, Ofw Hans Pfhaler 12/J51, U2, 45122 tiefung.
10.04.1943, fw Kurtz Tanzer 12/J51, U2, 45122 tiefung. 13h18

This day the 213th Night Bombing Aviation Division loose 2 U-2 during resupply missions from Zakharievskoye (33433).

Concerning Hans Pfhaler for those two claims of the 13th april 1943 againt the GC3 Normandie.
One is overclaimed (perhaps the first), the second seem to be the Ltn Poznansky.

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[Courtois Laurent]

Other one...

08.04.43

08.04.43Ltn. Franz Barten 11./JG 51 Il-2 45 521: at 700 m. 15.40 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 393

One Il-2 from the 224 missing this day. The plane wreckage is found the 11th april, in the quadra 45522 (Orlovka).The Il-2 after been shooting had made an energency landing, aircraft destroyed, team wounded/

08.04.43 Ltn. Franz Barten11./JG 51 Il-2 45 342: at 700 m.15.42 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: ASM
overclaimed.

[James A Pratt III]

on the GC NN 13 Apr 43 combat it is mentioned in BCRS V5 Pages 165-66. Not a good day for this unit.

[Courtois Laurent]

Hello,

Two news claims of the JG/51 identified :

24.03.1943 FW Rudolf Wagner 10/J51 - 1 Lagg-3 - 44654 at 3000 m 4h49
24.03.1943 FW Rudolf Wagner 10/J51 - 1 Lagg-3 - 44554 at 3000 m 4h45
24.03.1943 FW Rudolf Wagner 10/J51 - 1 Lagg-3 - 44654 at 3000 m 4h47

This day betwen at 5h to 6h15 am (russian times- 4h 5h15 german times) the 523 IAP escorting 224th IAd's Il-2 on Briansk airfield loosed two La-5 (Pilots Sokolsky and Avertian).



Then 2 confirmed and one overclaimed

[Stig Jarlevik]

Very interesting Courtois

Some observations
According to Johannes Mathews Wagner only made two claims in the Bryansk area on 24 April (not March as given)
From where comes the third claim (time 04.47H)?

Since I am completely non Russian speaking/reading (it's all Greek to me ), the names you list and point
me towards both come up very differently when Mr Google translated them:
Sokolsky, Alexey Nikitich and Avetyan, Vartan Khachaturovich.

Can you or anyone else comment on that please?

Cheers
Stig

[Courtois Laurent]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Very interesting Courtois

Some observations
According to Johannes Mathews Wagner only made two claims in the Bryansk area on 24 April (not March as given)
From where comes the third claim (time 04.47H)?

Since I am completely non Russian speaking/reading (it's all Greek to me ), the names you list and point
me towards both come up very differently when Mr Google translated them:
Sokolsky, Alexey Nikitich and Avetyan, Vartan Khachaturovich.

Can you or anyone else comment on that please?

Cheers

Stig

Hy Stig,

I have 3 claims on two Pdf listing including one from Jan J Safarik and second anonymous. See Below, if someone know the autor thanks to him to help me.


picture : https://ibb.co/sjngK36


For the spelling it's because I read directly the 1943's repport where is some mispelling on sokovsky who 'is writtng Sokolovsky, and for Avartian today I m' a littke tired then i have forget to switch the B to V or misreading the handwritting V in B.

picure : https://ibb.co/gdysNgn



Read old handwritting russian for a no-native russian,it's a fly at high level, something like an U-2 trying to better than an space shuttle.


Had a goday

[Courtois Laurent]

Hello,

New one claimed identified, this time for the 15(span) J51.

01.05.43Oblt. A. Pérez-Gonzáles15. (Span)/JG 51 LaGG-3 44 172: at 1.800 m.12.10Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 37.

Soviet report : (I tanslate a handwritting’s report, i could have done some misreading sorry)

At 12h45 (soviet times -> 11h45 german times) 4 Yak-7, leader lieutnant Strujkin carried out reconnaissance of the aerodrome of Sechtcha, during the return in the secteur of Belitsa (35894), the Yak were suddenly attacked by one FW-190. as a result, the pilot ml.lt Grachev was shot down, who landed in a forest on a clearing 10 km southwest of Betlitsa (34233).

The point given by the Soviets is 22 km NW of that given by the Spanish pilot, it seems a lot, but in the error path provided by the examples of discoveries of aircraft wreckage provided by the Russian research groups .
The Soviets have identified an FW-190, since April 26 the 15/JG1 is equipped with FW-190A3.
The time matches. The victory is therefore "scientifically" demonstrated.