Seeking info on P/O Roi Leonard Saunders KIA May 22nd 1940

[BlenheimBuff]

Ross/Paul,

I have now had the opportunity to review the 600 Sqn ORB for the period 1925 to late 1939, and can confirm that the name Saunders does not appear in any entries. That being said, there were 14 unnamed civilian OR entrants in January 1935, and so I'm wondering if Roi Saunders could have been one of these. He would have just turned 18 at this point, so the sort of age that you might expect him to be taking such a step.

Would it be possible for him to have served as OR with 600 sqn? perhaps even to have subsequently applied for an AAF commission, been rejected.....and then applied for a reserve commission instead? Looking at the ORB it is clear that 600 Sqn had a high rejection rate, presumably the result of "pre-war gentlemans' club" type thinking. Roi Saunders was from a working class background, so not necessarily the right 'type' for 600 Sqn at that time.

Any further thoughts appreciated.

Ian

[rafcommands]

The answer is in his service records - apart from facts from published primary sources all is "typically", "probably", "normally", "usually" etc.

Between the wars (early 30s) there were three main formations that made up the Air Force = Regular, Auxiliary and Reserve.

To prevent the regular force stagnating with long term personnel who were not competent in increasingly technical eqypment and warfare methods a system of short service commissions was used. Most officers served for a period of not more than five years then were obligated to spend a defined number of years on the reserve list. The few who showed an aptitude for higher command were offered permanent commissions and joined the small numbers of Cranwell trained long termers.

The contraction of service after the great war had resulted in a very small regular service, mostly occupied in policing duties in the middle east and a large reserve that by the late 20s lacked current training on newer service types.

All the abpve was mainly concerned with Commissioned Officers, OR ground trades were not considered generally for reserve service of any length, only a few individuals being marked for reserve cadre.

In the mid 1930s the RAF embarked on the various expansion schemes which initially resulted in the regular force being expanded by extending most short service commissions by a few years. As new equipment arrived new direct entry officers were commissioned to man them but aerodrome construction to house the expanded Air Forces was the initial limiter.

The expansion of Regular resulted in a dramtic drop in Class A, B and C entry to the reserve. The Treasury had agreed to a certain size of reserve and rather than keeping on poorly trained men at the end of their reserve comittment the Air Forces sought to bring in direct entrants who had no previous service and train them to the same standard as new entry regulars.

This would eliminate the "5 year" skills gap between regular service and Class B/C reserves.

Both Regular and Auxiliary had associated reserve forces eg Reserve of Air Force Officers = RAFO and Auxiliary Air Force Reserve of Officers = AAFRO.

Still with me?

So in late 1936 Saunders with previous AAF service would have had no real numbers bar to Commission within the AAF or its associated reserve AAFRO. This would be the "normal" and "usual" route to Commission.

As to joining AAF in 1935 although his age by modern standards is adequate it is a bit young for the expansion period who looked for previous mechanical skills for new entry ground crews.

All the evidence points to the fact that Saunders was not a civil trained pilot at entry eg no Royal Aero Club Licence and 3 months normal Flying Training Course after entry before award of wings.

I look to his Commission into the RAFO as significant and a sign that he was "second string" choice for the regular force. Essentially the regular force was "parking" him for the ealy 40s by giving current flying training and a commitment to maintain his service type flying experience for the next 5 years.

My take on the senario is that the local AAF unit is instructed to take him for a few months and give some service induction/basic drill training etc that he would lack with Direct RAFO entry.

The only way the AAF unit could handle the admin is to assign him a service number to track kit/training issue etc.

After flying training at No.8 FTS he continues to appear in Air Force List as RAFO but the "where serving" is denoted by "-" saying although on the reserve list he was not on the resident strength of any regular unit.

It is not until the Expansion scheme about Munich time that he is recalled into resident stregth of No.57 Squadron and his current service type training is strengthened.

As to where currency flying training took place between No.8 FTS and No.57 Sqn the hours on type listed on the 1939 F1180 Accident Card suggest that since only 1/3 of total hours is on Blenheim it was either on units where Blenheim was not the primary type or on secondary types of Bomber Units.

As to class bar, remember that the RAFVR was formed in July 1936 so this usually would have been an easier route into RAF reserve service for him.

Ross

[BlenheimBuff]

Ross,

Thanks for that excellent analysis, you've certainly covered all of the scenarios very thoroughly. I think the next step is for me to bite the bullet and stump up for the service record. Let's just hope it includes his service history prior to the 70602 service number being issued.

Thanks once again for taking the time to explain the relevant issues.

Regards,

Ian