Claims, dated March 18th 1945 in Southwest Germany

[Rolfeb]

Hi All,
on March 18th 1945, the NAG 13 lost a Me 109 in Black Forest, about 20 miles east of Freiburg.
Reason of loss was dog fight with Allied fighters. Pilot of Me 109 was killed.
Searching for all claims at that day and area.
Any info is appreciated
Thanks a lot in advance
Rolf

[rof120]

Most probably a victim of (a) French P-47 D(s). This area was their territory. Sorry I don't know more but certainly some other guys do.

[Nick Beale]

A Bf 109 was claimed by Sous-Lieutenant Boillot of GC 2/7, near Freudenstadt. (Source: Aéro Journa,l No. 24 April–May 2002, "La Route du Rhin août 1944–mai 1945" by Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt)

[Rolfeb]

Hi Nick,
thanks for your response. Freudenstadt is about 45 km north of the crash site. So could be possible that Boillot shot down the Bf 109 I’m talking about. Unfortunately I don’t have the Aero Journal you mention as source. Would be interesting if there is more info about the claim e.g. if the French fighter saw 2 Bf 109. This because NAG 13 usually flew with 2 planes but not more.
Is there a claim report available somewhere?
Thanks a lot
Rolf

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Rolfeb

Hi Nick,
Would be interesting if there is more info about the claim
Rolf

There isn't. From all I have read, I agree that NAGr. Bf 109s normally flew in pairs.

It's not much help but I have this from ULTRA:

CX/MSS/T493/89

Source copied a document stamped 0030/19/3:

… Day operations report for 18/3.

C) Recce.

1 Rotte Me 109 each, in all 10 Me 109: battle recce area Saarbrücken – Saargemünd – Bitsch, broken off on account of fighter defence.

Battle recce Ingweiler – Hochfelden – Brumath – Drusenheim only partly carried out.

Battle recce Saargemünd – Walschbronn – Bliekastel – Saarbrucken not carried out on account of fighter defence.

Battle recce area Wissembourg – Niederbronn – Hagenau – Drusenheim – Lauterbourg – only partly carried out.

Battle recce Bitsch – Walschbronn – Bliekastel – Saarbrücken not carried out on account of fighter defence.

NOTE: Almost certainly a circular from Fliegerdiv 16.

[CENTURION]

Hello Rolf,
according to "Pilotes Francais sur l'Alsace et l'Allemagne", at 16.20 twelve Spitfires (eight of GC 1/7 "Provence" and four of GC 2/7 "Nice") carried out an offensive patrol over enemy territory. At about 16.50, flying 10 Km East of Strasbourg the French pilots saw a single enemy aircraft flying South-West and four Spitfires chased it. Sous-lieutenant Boillot (of "Nice") fired two bursts and the Bf.109 crashed on fire in a wood around Freudenstadt. The German pilot didn't baled out.
Acording to " USAAF (Europena theater) credits for the destruction of enemy aircraft " there were no American claims in the Freudenstadt area.
Hope this helps.
Best regards.

Marco

[Rolfeb]

Originally Posted by CENTURION

Hello Rolf,
according to "Pilotes Francais sur l'Alsace et l'Allemagne", at 16.20 twelve Spitfires (eight of GC 1/7 "Provence" and four of GC 2/7 "Nice") carried out an offensive patrol over enemy territory. At about 16.50, flying 10 Km East of Strasbourg the French pilots saw a single enemy aircraft flying South-West and four Spitfires chased it. Sous-lieutenant Boillot (of "Nice") fired two bursts and the Bf.109 crashed on fire in a wood around Freudenstadt. The German pilot didn't baled out.
Acording to " USAAF (Europena theater) credits for the destruction of enemy aircraft " there were no American claims in the Freudenstadt area.
Hope this helps.
Best regards.

Marco

Hi Marco,

thanks a lot for your feedback.
Not sure if we talk about the same Bf 109. What I know is that the pilot bailed out but chute didn’t open because pilot was almost on ground. Pilot was found a day later in a forest lying dead with half opened chute.
The crash site is about 45 km South of Freudenstadt.
Do you have another claim that day in Black Forest or is this the only one that day?
Thanks a lot in advance
Rolf

[Rolfeb]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

There isn't. From all I have read, I agree that NAGr. Bf 109s normally flew in pairs.

It's not much help but I have this from ULTRA:

CX/MSS/T493/89

Source copied a document stamped 0030/19/3:

… Day operations report for 18/3.

C) Recce.

1 Rotte Me 109 each, in all 10 Me 109: battle recce area Saarbrücken – Saargemünd – Bitsch, broken off on account of fighter defence.

Battle recce Ingweiler – Hochfelden – Brumath – Drusenheim only partly carried out.

Battle recce Saargemünd – Walschbronn – Bliekastel – Saarbrucken not carried out on account of fighter defence.

Battle recce area Wissembourg – Niederbronn – Hagenau – Drusenheim – Lauterbourg – only partly carried out.

Battle recce Bitsch – Walschbronn – Bliekastel – Saarbrücken not carried out on account of fighter defence.

NOTE: Almost certainly a circular from Fliegerdiv 16.

Hi Nick,

Can you verify if this Ultra message talks about 2./NAG13?
This unit was based in Donaueschingen Nord in March 45 and I believe the plane and pilot were part of 2./NAG13.
This
Thanks a lot
Rolf

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Rolfeb

Hi Nick,

Can you verify if this Ultra message talks about 2./NAG13?
Rolf

I can't. That's a direct transcription of the relevant part of a longer message but the attached may help: it's a British Air Operational Watch report based on ULTRA and Y-Service information.

[Trendle]

Hi Rolf,

the crash oft that Bf 109 occured on March 19th 1945. Claims in the Southwest at that very day:

Captain Barns 324th F.G. Bf 109 * Raum Pforzheim - Deutschland (?)

Major Williams 162nd Rcn. Sqn. Bf 109 * 15 Km südwestlich Stuttgart - D. (dam.) 15.55

Lieutenant Waits 162nd Rcn. Sqn. Bf 109 * 15 Km südwestlich Stuttgart - Deutschland 15.55

2nd Lieutenant Reavis 162nd Rcn. Sqn. Bf 109 * 15 Km nördlich Karlsruhe - Deutschland 16.00

2nd Lieutenant Reavis 162nd Rcn. Sqn. Bf 109 * 15 Km nördlich Karlsruhe - Deutschland (prob.) 16.00

2nd Lieutenant Reavis 162nd Rcn. Sqn. Bf 109 * 15 Km nördlich Karlsruhe - Deutschland dam.) 16.00

On March 18th Sous Lieutenant shot down Leutnant Günther Landt near Freudenstadt

Best Regards,

Fred