359 FG dogfight with Russian fighters?

[Skyraider3D]

Originally Posted by kolya1

Simply that such incidents happened when unknown planes were instantly attacked without sufficient ID

The thing is, the aircraft had already been positively ID'd as German Fw 190s and Bf 109s. When Yaks and Lavochkins entered the scene they were logically assumed to be German as well! They didn't look like unknown planes, you see, they looked like the German ones. Same camo (grey), same shapes (109 & Yak; 190 & La-5). Germans were known to fiddle with their markings, so the lack of markings on the upper wing didn't help the Soviets' case.
Even top-ace Ray Wetmore, who is known for having had an extremely sharp eyesight, nearly opened fire on an La-5.

I heard a story once of a Mustang shooting down another Mustang, after having mistaken it for an Me 262 - thinking the latter's droptanks were jet nacelles!!

Blue on blue incidents happened pretty often, unfortunately. Like you said Pierre Clostermann mentioned a few. Indeed Typhoon and Tempest units were occasionally bounced. Their relatively unfamiliar planes and green-grey camo being mistaken for low-flying German JaBo's. But I guess the 18th March incident is so striking, because of the fact it happened on a large scale between two nations who would soon be locked in a long and dangerous cold war.


PS. Check out Brian Cull's post if you haven't yet... Interesting and tragic stuff...
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=2670

[kolya1]

Thanks for your answer.

Clearly, confused circumstances can lead to tragic mistakes.

P.S. : Clostermann also describes a situation in which he fired (without hitting) on a Typhoon he had mistaken as a Fw-190, showing that US pilots weren't the only ones to occasionally confuse the big Hawker fighters with LW planes...

Originally Posted by Skyraider3D

I heard a story once of a Mustang shooting down another Mustang, after having mistaken it for an Me 262 - thinking the latter's droptanks were jet nacelles!!

I didn't know about this one, interestingly it was not the only time when Mustangs with drop tanks were mistaken for twin-engined planes...

When Japan's 64th Sentai encountered Mustangs for the first time (in 1943 I think), they identified them at first as friendly Ki-45 Toryus before realising the were US planes.

I sent Brian Cull a copy of the complete report from the Combined Chiefs of Staff file at the National Archives, College Park, Maryland regarding the shootdown of Soviet fighters mentioned in this thread. I previously listed this file number on this web site in answer to Cull's request for information on friendly fire.

Apparently, the 359 FG tried to hide the incident from HQ 8th AF and denied any involvement. But later in the CCS file, information appears that the 359 FG pilots did indeed shoot down the Soviet aircraft.

And yes, the USAAF pilots were trigger happy and would shoot down anything that flew. Aircraft identification was not the forte of every USAAF pilot. P-38s of the 10th Recon Group were constantly being jumped and attacked by 9th AF P-47s during later stages of the war over the continent.

How could a USAAF pilot confuse a P-38 from any Luftwaffe aircraft?

Norman Malayney

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Norman Malayney

How could a USAAF pilot confuse a P-38 from any Luftwaffe aircraft?

Well, the P-38's silhouette wasn't that far away from the Fw 189's, albeit the latter wasn't a very common sight over the Western Front...