Lt Rüdiger Kirchmayr

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Robert

That actually supports von Kirchmayr's diary
To sum up the losses it seems the following is correct regarding JFS 5's losses.

WNr 5611 or 5617 F-1 crash landed at Octeville, ff unknown, safe
WNr 7677 E-7 crashed near Harfleur or into sea, ff von Kirchmayr safe
WNr 12691 F-2 Lt Elmar Resch bailed out 13.30H, safe

Are we good so far??

Cheers
Stig

[Monaco]

Thanks Robert and Stig,
I agree abot the losses, if the Kirchmayr tagebuch is trustworthy...
About 15.10.41 the rookies of 5./JFS 5 did some serious overclaiming regarding the Spitfires: 3 and 1 n.b. claims against one actual loss, whilst the 2 Blenheim claims against 226 Sq. RAF are valid:


15. October 1941
15.10.41 Ltn. Theo Eicher 4./JG 2 Wellington - 08.32 Film C. 2036/II Anerk: Nr.102
15.10.41 Ofw. Siegfried Göbel 5./ZG 76 Blenheim 34.57 at 5-10 m. 12.05 Film C. 2033/I Anerk: Nr.58
15.10.41 Ltn. Koenig 5./ZG 76 Blenheim 24.69 in tiefflug 12.15 Film C. 2033/I Anerk: Nr.59
15.10.41 Lt. Theo Eicher 4./JG 2 Blenheim £ Sea: off Le Havre: cl. Wellington 08.32 - - yes


15.10.41 Lt. Rüdiger Kirchmayr: n.b. 4.(Eins)/JFS 5 Spitfire Octeville 16.13 JFV5 (-)
15.10.41 Uffz. Josef Jennewein: 4 4.(Eins)/JFS 5 Spitfire Le Havre - JFV5 (40)
15.10.41 Uffz. Peter Gerth: 10 4.(Eins)/JFS 5 Spitfire Le Havre - JFV5 (41)
15.10.41 Uffz. Peter Gerth: 11 4.(Eins)/JFS 5 Spitfire Le Havre - JFV5 (42)
15.10.41 N.N. (prob. Oblt. Füllbert Zink 17 or Oblt.Herbert Heck 4 unaccounted victories) 4.(Eins)/JFS 5 Spitfire Le Havre - JFV5 (43)
15.10.41 N.N. (prob. Oblt. Füllbert Zink 17 or Oblt.Herbert Heck 4 unaccounted victories) 4.(Eins)/JFS 5 Spitfire Le Havre - JFV5 (44)
15.10.41 Uffz. Josef Jennewein: 5 4.(Eins)/JFS 5 Blenheim Le Havre - JFV5 (45)
4./JFS 5 claimed 2 Blenheims, 226 Sq. RAF lost 2 Bleinheims
15.10.41 Lt. Bodo Helms: 2 4.(Eins)/JFS 5 Blenheim Le Havre - JFV5 (46)
4./JFS 5 claimed 2 Blenheims, 226 Sq. RAF lost 2 Bleinheims



Bomber Command lost:
Blenheim IV L9382 (P/O W. Davidson and crew, KIA) of 114 Sq. RAF FTR from Anti-Shipping sortie (Beat 8, t/o 0745 West Raynham) s/d into sea by Bf.110s of 5./ZG.76 off (130km WNW) Den Helder.
Blenheim IV V5875 (Sgt C. Balzer, RAAF, and crew, KIA) of 114 Sq. RAF FTR from Anti-Shipping sortie (Beat 8, t/o 0745 West Raynham) s/d into sea by Bf.110s of 5./ZG.76 off (130km WNW) Den Helder.
Bomber Command lost a total of 7 out of 24 Blenheim IVs that were dispatched by 2 Group that day:
Z7493 (P/O R. Hudson, RAAF, and crew, KIA) and Z7494 (Sgt S. Paine and crew, KIA) of 226 Sq. RAF on a mission to le Havre (t/o 1346 Tangmere). They were reported to have attacked a tanker and were s/d by Bf.109s.
V6249 (S/L R.T. Stubbs), Z7300 (Sgt E.F. Gill) and Z7320 (F/O T.R. Paxton) of 139 Sq. RAF t/o 0758 Oulton for an Anti-Shipping sortie and were lost without a trace. Maybe one of them was s/d by Lt. Eicher of 4./JG.2 also there are some difficulties regarding the time of the claim.

Fighter Command lost:
Spitfire Vb P8714 (Sgt H.R. Barnett, KIA) s/d into sea on Ramrod 69 by Bf.109 off Le Havre, 1230.

15. October 1941

RAF 11 Group: Anti-shipping Strike

RAF 11 Gp. 615 Sqn. 3 Hurricane IIb 07.14‑08.05 Anti-shipping 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 2 Cat.2 Flak off Blankenberge

Cat.2 15.10.41 Pilot: ok 11 Group 615 Sqn. Hurricane IIb: KW- Flak: Base
Cat.2 15.10.41 Pilot: ok 11 Group 615 Sqn. Hurricane IIb: KW- Flak: Base

RAF 11 Group Ramrod 1: Dockyards LE HAVRE

12.00: RAF 2 Group 12 Blenheim IV

(2 Blenheim IV lost)

Escort Wing: Tangmere
RAF 11 Gp. Woodhouse 1 Spitfire Vb 11.53‑13.10 Ramrod 1 ‑ 0 – 0 Me 109F No casualty L-BS: Le Havre

Claim 15.10.41 W/Cdr. H.C.A. Woodhouse 11 Group Tangmere 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 12.45 ca: Le Havre

RAF 11 Gp. 129 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 11.53‑13.10 Ramrod 1 ‑ 0 ‑ 0 Me109F No casualty L-BS: Le Havre

Claim 15.10.41 Pilot 11 Group 129 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 12.35 ca: Le Havre

Escort-Cover Wing: Ibsley
RAF 10 Gp. 118 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 12.30- Ramrod 2 ‑ 0 ‑ 0 Me 109F No casualty L-BS: Le Havre

Claim 15.10.41 Pilot 11 Group 118 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F Le Havre
Claim 15.10.41 Pilot 11 Group 118 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F Le Havre

RAF 10 Gp. 234 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 12.30- Ramrod 1 ‑ 1 ‑ 3 Me 109F 1 Cat.3m Fighters L-BS: Le Havre

Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. H.R. Barnett: kia 10 Group 234 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: P8714 Me 109s: Le Havre

Claim 15.10.41 S/Ldr. H.M. Stephen 10 Group 234 Sqn. ½ - 0 - 0 Me 109F Le Havre
Claim 15.10.41 F/O P.I. Howard-Williams 10 Group 234 Sqn. ½ - 0 - 0 Me 109F Le Havre
Claim 15.10.41 Pilot 10 Group 234 Sqn. 0 - 1 - 0 Me 109F Le Havre
Claim 15.10.41 Pilot 10 Group 234 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F Le Havre
Claim 15.10.41 Pilot 10 Group 234 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F Le Havre
Claim 15.10.41 Pilot 10 Group 234 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F Le Havre

RAF 2 Group Light-Bomber:
RAF 2 Gp. 226 Sqn. 6 Blenheim IV 13.46- Ramrod 1 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 2 Cat.3m Lost Tasked: Le Havre

Cat.3m 15.10.41 P/O R.M. Hudson raaf: kia 2 Group 226 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7493: Y
Me 109s: Le Havre
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. D. Poulston: kia 2 Group 226 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7493: Y
Me 109s: Le Havre
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. G.S. Needler: kia 2 Group 226 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7493: Y
Me 109s: Le Havre

Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. S.L.T. Paine: kia 2 Group 226 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7494: Z
Me 109s: Le Havre
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. G.R. Banks: kia 2 Group 226 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7494: Z
Me 109s: Le Havre
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. W.J.S. Wolstenholme: kia 2 Group 226 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7494: Z
Me 109s: Le Havre

Summary for Ramrod 1 on 15th October 1941 to dock-yards at Le Havre. Fighters taking part 5 squadrons, 61 sorties, 5-1-4 claimed for 1 lost. Bombers taking part 12 Blenheim IV of 2 Group, 2 lost: strikes on 10,000-ton Tanker and 5,000-ton MV. Ref: RAF/FC Summary of Sorties (Air 16/1307)

Day Bomber Casualties (due Enemy Action)

No. 2 Group Blenheim IV: unescorted Anti-shipping Strikes

Cat.3m 15.10.41 P/O W.H. Davidson rcaf: kia 2 Group 114 Sqn. Blenheim IV: L9382
Me 110s: DenHelder
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. E.K. Saul: kia 2 Group 114 Sqn. Blenheim IV: L9382
Me 110s: DenHelder
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. D.G. Peppler: kia 2 Group 114 Sqn. Blenheim IV: L9382
Me 110s: DenHelder

Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. C.S. Balzer raaf: kia 2 Group 114 Sqn. Blenheim IV: V5875
Me 110s: DenHelder
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. H.L. Elliott rcaf: kia 2 Group 114 Sqn. Blenheim IV: V5875
Me 110s: DenHelder
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. V.F.W. Slae: kia 2 Group 114 Sqn. Blenheim IV: V5875
Me 110s: DenHelder

Cat.3m 15.10.41 S/Ldr. R.T. Stubbs dfc: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: V6249
North Sea: no trace
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. J.W. Bradley: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: V6249
North Sea: no trace
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. W.P. Thom: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: V6249
North Sea: no trace

Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. E.F. Gill: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7300
North Sea: no trace
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. A.W. Humphries: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7300
North Sea: no trace
Cat.3m 15.10.41 Sgt. D.W. Marshall: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7300
North Sea: no trace

Cat.3m 15.10.41 F/O T.R. Paxton: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7320
North Sea: no trace
Cat.3m 15.10.41 P/O H.M. Clarke: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7320
North Sea: no trace
Cat.3m 15.10.41 F/O R.C. Holloway: kia 2 Group 139 Sqn. Blenheim IV: Z7320
North Sea: no trace



15.10.41 4.(Eins.)/JFS 5Bf.109E-7 Wnr.5611 crash-landing Octeville (65%), pilot safe.
15.10.41 4.(Eins.)/JFS 5Bf.109E-7 Wnr.7677 crashed near Harfleur (100%), pilot safe.
15.10.41 4.(Eins.)/JFS 5Bf.109E-7 Wnr.12691 crashed near Le Havre (100%), Lt. Elmar Resch FSA (bailed out), WIA.

15.10.1941

5.

ZG 76

F

Pl.Qu. 34.6
Luftkampf mit 3 Bristol-Blenheim
(1 Abschuß Blenheim 12:05, Pl.Qu. 3457)
Bf 110 E-1

3441

M8+HM

b

Ofw.

GÖBEL,
Siegfried

verw.

RK

Kanal, NL

Regards


Michael

[Monaco]

Wood naturally has not all RAF missions in his file for 1941 i.e. according to the ORB 91 Squadron flew an interception with 6 Spitfires between 17.25/30 and 18.25/30 on 15.10.41 though no contact.

[robert]

Hi,

a war diary of loacal German navy flak unit gives that this incursion took place at 13.20 hrs: 36-40 Blenheim bombers, 40-50 Spitfires, 12 enemy a/c were claimed by fighters and 4 by flak. 4 own fighters were lost without personal fatalities. 1 Spit that machine-gunned a battery was hit by return fire: 2 hits and developing smoke was observed, 1 Blenheim was shot down crashing into the sea.

BR

Robert

[Monaco]

Thanks Robert,
in Führungsstab Ic Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe Lagebericht Nr.767 for 15.10.41 it is mentioned that the raid was intercepted by 57 Bf.109s which claimed 4 Blenheims and 6 Spitfires, flak claimed 3 and 1 more out of 36 Blenheims and 40-50 Spitfires attacking between 13.05-13.35 Uhr. No own losses are mentioned.
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/...277783/zooms/8

[Monaco]

rying to sort out what happened on 15.10.41 to Kirchmayr I ordered the following booklet:

https://weltkrieg-online.de/?product=flieger-heft-84-2

Knowing that this series is a follower of the infamous "Landser" series you can get very different stuff there ranging from fiction to PK materiel to some examples were sources have been used.
No.84 is one of the better examples and typically I found no solution, but another version about the event, here is what K. Adrian (prob. a pseudonym) writes about „Pepi“ Jennewein on 15.10.41 in illoustrious words (forgive my adhoc translation):

„In the afternoon of 15 October 1941 a Spitfire escorted Blenheim bomber formation approaching Le Havre was reported. At once all serviceable machines of 4. Einsatzstaffel take off. Immediately after the take off the Messerschitts were intercepted by a wolfpack of Spitfires and in a hefty air combat Kirchmayr suceeded in shooting down one Spitfire out of the sky near Octeville. Though the main part of the Staffel was already en route to Le Havre.
Jennewein´s view went down, where the colourful spots of the french coastal landscape lit up. To the right the surface of the Channel reflected in the light of the afternoon sun. A bit ahead flickered explosions. German flak! We´re there in a blink came to "Pepi´s" mind.
At once the Messerschmitts turned south east directly towards the harbour area of Le Havre. They were still climbing. The needle of the altitude counter constantly went up: 4.500, 5.000, 5.500 meters!
Suddenly there was a snorting voice, that "Pepi" couldn´t understand. Then he saw a row of dots silhouetted just over the coast line. 2-3 seconds later Staffelkapitän Fülbert Zink gave the attack order. Instantly the Schwärme (flights) dissolved into Rotten (sections). Driving in from the west was a close formation of 8 Spitfires.
Jennewein loosened his straps a little bit. A push against the stick and the controls showed him, that the weapons were ready. Another check at the enemy and he was sure, that they were Spitfires. About 1000 meters below the enemy aircraft were buzzing around the sky like a distirred beehive. Presumably they had discovered the german fighters. At once numerous voices intermingled via the radio. Not word could be understood. "Pepi" heard clatter of noises, but ignored them. A Spitfire section zoomed up in front of him nearby. It was a total turmoil though "Pepi" was cold blooded. With gas opened up to the full he dived upon the foe. The british pilot turned his craft and then fell over one wing down, then turning sharply after a few seconds. "Pepi"turned his Messerschmitt around, dived a little and suddenly had the enemy machine right in front of him. Both fighters rushed at each other at high speed.
Jennewein pushed his thumb on the firing button. Immediately the rounds spit out of the "Friedrich". The hammering of the weapons was rattling man and machine. At the wings of the Spitfire muzzle flashes appeared. The opponent fighter was getting bigger every second. Still the weapons bumped, when suddenly parts fell from the Spitfire. A darting flame came from the engine nascelle and enhanced in smoke the opponent tumbled down. "Pepi" shortly pulled the stick and laid his Mescherschmitt on the side, that he could observe the fall the Spitfire. The enemy machine was only a glowing fireball and it´s crash seemed unavoidable.
Only days later Jennewein was informed, that the british pilot suceeded in carrying out an emergency ditching on the water directly at the coast. Soldiers of a german "Küstenartillerieabteilung" could howl the Englishman in and take him POW.
Just as "Pepi" was orientating himself anew a shadow zoomed over his cockpit. After a hairraising second he relaxed. It was Unteroffizier Peter Gerth, who - coming out of a curve - had latched on the tail of a Spitfire. Tracer ammunition left his weapons and severed the tailplane of the enemy plane.
The Spitfire tumbled from the sky and exploded on the ground near Le Havre. After observing the crash of the Spitfire “Pepi“ looked towards Le Havre. He saw the explosions of flak canons firing and then directly over the harbour area little black dots. These are the bombers! They had sent their fighters ahead to entangle us in combats. It was running through Jennewein´s head, that the bombers had a free for all upon the german warships in the port of Le Havre in the meantime.
He opened the gas throttle, raised the nose of is fighter and closed in on what were supposedly bombers. Ahead of him „Pepi“ saw another Me 109, which was piloted by Leutnant Bodo Helms as he identified from it´s code numbers.
At the same time he noticed, that the british bombers already had dropped their load over the harbour area and were on their way back. Fires and wallowing dark clouds over the sky indicated that.
Positioned above both Messerschmitts dived on one bomber flight. Jennewein targeted one Blenheim. The distance was closing rapidly. The Blenheim already filled the visor. Instantly „Pepi“ pushed the button, but the first salvo went low. He targeted the Blenheim once again and pushed the button anew. The noise filled his ears and tracers filled the sky. The enemy bomber flew directly into the volley and „Pepi“ saw metall pieces falling off the left engine cowling, but the machine wasn´t hit decisevely yet.
Now the british rear gunner opened fire and his sheaf of fire was well aimed. Bullets hissed by near the canopy. Jennewein throttled back and initiated a new attack. Again the Blenheim was in his visor and the weapons rumbled away. And the rear gunner also struck back with all he had and aimed well. The Me was hit several times and „Pepi“ noticed a slight smell of burning, though he did not want to give up. He aimed at the tailplane of the bomber and fired a long volley at it. Again debris flew away.
He had closed to 50 meters and zoomed up to get out of the fire zone of the rear gunner, but nobody fired at him. Jennewein dared to attack again. The target grew into his visor big as a barn and a long fire cue crackled from all weapons. Soon you´ll ram him, pull away he thought. With a quick move of the joystick he raced along the left side of the damaged enemy bomber. In a blink he saw the twin-engined machine the abondoned onboard machine gun of the dorsal position that hang down abandoned. So he had put the rear gunner out of action. With well trained maneuvers Jennewein one more time attacked the bomber from the side. From short distance he fired at the cockpit and the right engine. After a few seconds fire tongues came out of the engine and engulfed the enemy plane in fire and smoke. Suddenly it tumbled and as in slow motion went down over the burning right wing. Like a burning torch it went down and crashed near Le Havre.
Whilst turning away „Pepi“ observed a second burning Blenheim shot down and the Messerschmitt of Leutnant Bodo Helms which had fired the rounds of which she had became the victim of. In the next moment Jennewein realized that his engine stuttered and a thin cloud of smoke was emerging through the cowling. The first oil splashes appeared on the forward part of his canopy. An immediate check of the instruments showed eyerything was alright, even the oil pressure wasn´t in the red zone yet. You´ll make it to Octeville „Pepi“ was talking to himself.
Out of the blue the Messerschmitt of Leutnant Bodo Helms appeared alongside. The Leutnant waved and indicated, that he would accompy the shot up machine of Jennewein back to base. The engine of the peppered Me 109 of the Unteroffizier had more and more dropouts. Now thick smoke came from the engine of the fighter and she lost more and more altitude.
Thank good the combat with the Blenheim took place at 4.000 meters, I would have had to force-land long ago „Pepi“ thought. Flying close alongside Leutnant Bodo Helms reported via radio that the cooling line probably must have been severed. As „Pepi“ saw that the engine temperature was rising into the red zone, he throttled back. Finally he reached Octeville at very low flying speed, but the british were obstinate. Just as „Pepi“ came in to land he heard the voice of Leutnant Helms via radio: „Spitfire behind you „Pepi“!“ No sooner a long tracer volley missed the wounded Messerschmitt by inches. Jennewein reacted quickly, pushed the gas lever forward and carried on. The maneuver was successful. Whilst turning he became aware that Leutnant Helms had thwarthed off the Spitfire. Jennewein once more tried to land, but the engine again began to stutter and drop out. On top of that he couldn´t lower the landing gear. You have to belly-land he feared. The cell of the Messerschmitt was shaking immense, the engine revolutions fell and the Me 109 was closing ground fast. Jennewein just noticed a white signal rocket and as the fire truck and several other trucks and cars went into motion on the ground. But now he concentrated on the emergency landing as the landing strip was out of reach now. At that moment the propeller stood still. Instictively „Pepi“ pushed in the illuminated recflex visor so that he wouldn´t hit his head on it during the impending belly-landing. His next thought were to switch of the fuse and throw off the cabin hood before he put the fighter down on a meadow.
The Messerschmitt claped hard on the ground, slipped along the meadow where a row of fruit trees stood. The fuselage ploughed the ground. At the end the the „old horse“ carouseled and he hit the right side of the cabin. He sensed stitching pain in his right shoulder. Taking of his flying helmet he heard the hissing sound out of the engine und saw bubbling white smoke evaporating.
„Get out of here!“ he mumbled to himself. He took his parachute and run off and after some meters saw the fire unit and some cars approaching. The doctor was also at hand and screened „Pepi“. Thereafter his diagnosis was „shoulder contusion“ and he was immediately forbidden to fly for several days.“

Now to cut a long story short, it would mean that first Kirchmayr s/d one Spitfire, then Jennewein and Gerth one Spitfire each, therafter Jennewein and Helms targeted the retreating bombers and s/d one Blenheim each, Jennewein was hit by return fire and belly-landed maybe the 65% damaged Bf.109.
One english fighter pilot was rescued (in fact the only pilot lost from 234 Sq. RAF was killed – maybe the pilot surviving was from another later combat). Four attacks to bring down the 226 Blenheim also shows the sturdyness of the Bristol bomber or maybe the inexperience of Jennewein (he would do better on the Eastern Front becoming the nemesis of the Pe-2 crews claiming no less than 18 of them!).
This account would also questions the time of Kirchmayr´s claim in Prien 16.13 (maybe 13.13 is more likely), but also the rescue flight of Jennewein described in the Tagebuch (as he was wounded and forbidden to fly).

BTW does somebody knows if Jennewein received the wounded badge?