Major Alexander James Wright RM 805/RNFS

[Stig Jarlevik]

Nice Keith!

However I would say the Z.1007bis almost certainly came from Rhodes and no doubt was checking things
along the Syrian - Palestine coast, since the Italians (aka Germans) must have been interested to find out
exactly what had happened in the area.

All Italian raids against Haifa came from Rhodes.

Cheers
Stig

[keith A]

Thanks chum.

Now I have another mystery to solve.

[simong]

I suspect that your first claim info is incorrect. 803 Squadron were shore based in Egypt on 17 March 1941. I believe that if Wright made a claim against an Italian mailplane, it would have been when HMS Formidable was in the Red Sea during February.

The lack of 803 Squadron records makes getting an accurate picture of their claims difficult - I think some of what has been written so far is also not eorrect and needs further work.

Simon

[keith A]

Indeed Simon. Forgive me, perhaps I am being too sensitive but I would question the tone of your response. It is not my "first claim". It is the claim shown in some (not all) sources. I have no dog in the fight, and am not trying to promote an agenda, Wright is purely one of many naval aviators I found had links to others that I am interested in. It would appear both his confirmed claims are genuine and therefore perhaps his unconfirmed claim has veracity?

"Formidable" was at the head of the Red Sea, waiting to enter the Suez canal and 803 was employed in interdicting Italian aircraft supporting their forces in East Africa. The description of "mailplane" is very vague. Does this mean an unarmed transport aircraft, a light aircraft or airliner? The victory is not confirmed by British sources, and not awarded officially. It may have been a Vichy aircraft, or a German aircraft.

"Formidable" was at Port Sudan when the victory was claimed and so that assumes it occurred in February 1941. Despite the sources 17 March 1941 must be wrong, and February does indeed seem more likely.

regards

Keith

[simong]

Hi Keith,

Apologies but by first claim I just mean the first one on your list - I would add that P/O Theobold has a note for the 19th Feb stating that he was diverted from an interception exercise and shout down a Ju88. This may be the same event, but clearly not a Ju88.


Simon

[keith A]

No harm.

A sound piece of reasoning. Definitely not a Ju88 that far south. Now we just have to think what these pilots thought they saw.

What would a mailplane look like? The Cant z501 and 506 were developed as civil transport spre-war however I assume the pilots would be able to identify these types.

However Theobald's victory was over the fleet near Cape Matapan, according to TOE (an aircraft of LG1) and 19 March 1941.

best regards

K

[Stig Jarlevik]

Keith/Simon

I would not dismiss the claim on 17 March 1941 so easily.
My source is Air War for Yugoslavia, Greece and Crete 1940-41.

It says that while in the port of Port Sudan (where HMS Formidable was held up due to mines in the
Suez Canal) two Fulmars flown by Wright and Simpson intercepted an Italian Mailplane and claimed
it as a probable.

I cannot see neither Chris Shores, Brian Cull nor Nicola Malizia take such information out of
thin air.

At the time Malizia obviously had no answer as to what that could have been, but I would basically
rule out all other combatants except the Italians.

Cheers
Stig

[keith A]

Hi Stig, I've read the passage and more in "Malta: the Hurricane years".

"on arrival at Port Sudan the ship had been delayed....While here two Fulmars intercepted a mailplane on route to Somaliland". The log of the Formidable states it arrived in the Suez canal on 7 March 1941 (https://www.armouredcarriers.com/hms...-matapan-tiger), see also
https://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3232.html

The details that it was heading to Somaliland are very interesting.
Why is this known, especially when the mailplane was not shot down and recovered? Answering my own question - because the mail route existed before the war, a commercial route which the British would have been aware of. This makes it sound like it was a deliberate ambush.

It must have been coming from Italian Eritrea. It would not have expected to encounter fighters. The victory appears to have been claimed between 25 February and 6 March.

My bad. Theobald's claim for a Ju88 occurred on 28 March 1941.

regards

Keith

[keith A]

A nucleus of Italian air transports were based in East Africa in early 1941.

9 SM73; 9 Ca133; 6 Ca185 (?); 1 Fokker FVII

https://mab.forumfree.it/?t=53052775

I would hazard a guess that the "mailplane" is an SM73. However....

"At the beginning of 1941 – after a few months’ operating schedule was carried out to support the Italian troops in Libya, Albania and Dodecanese – an entire section of SM75s was again brought onto the Benghazi-Gura and Benghazi-Gondar (respectively 2700 and 2800 km long) routes and onto the even harder Benghazi-Addis Abeba and Benghazi-Gimma (respectively 3200 and 3300 km) lines."