Bär's Me 262 at Innsbruck-Hotting?

[Karoband]

Originally Posted by Matolion

Yes, on that picture from fold3.com it appears that something was painted over. Unfortunately, it is no longer visible in other pictures of the machine, but it can be seen that something of the front part was repainted/repaired. The machine looks like it has been repaired more often

Your picture on fold3.com
https://www.fold3.com/image/29021898...t?terms=me,262

Stains on the front of the machine
https://i.imgur.com/4SuX0ln.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Gc5aCkp.jpg

Thanks for the great pictures, Matolion. It may be that the "white 5" mentioned by O'Connell is that "something on the front part".

[Matolion]

Yes, it is possible. If it was previously a III./EJG 2 machine, then the position of the painted number (if it was a number) would correspond

https://i.imgur.com/Zqw4CKI.jpg

[Karoband]

Hi Nick,

Thank you. That is truly a lot of detective work and it is appreciated. If I read your time line correctly, III./EJG 2 was absorbed on the 24th. For what it is worth, from Dan O'Connell, Me 262 The Production Log,, (Classic, 2005), p.217:

"25/04 Fw. Otto Kammerdiener of 10./EJG 2 transferred an EZ-42 equipped Me 262, "white 1" from Lechfeld to Riem between 20.25 and 20.40 for use by JV 44. Possibly W.Nr. 170047. [aau]" aau= Communication with Karl Rentschler

Three comments:
1. According to Robert Forsyth, Jagdverband 44 Squadron of Experten, (Osprey, 2008), p.28, Kammerdiener joined JV 44 on 11 March as an instructor from Fluglehrerschule der Luftwaffe.
2. The list of JV 44's pilots confirms Kammerdiener's immediately previous unit was "FLG.L.SCH. D. LW.".
3. It is likely Galland or Bär sent JV 44 pilots to Lechfeld to fetch intact Me 262 fighters of III./EJG 2, leaving the recce versions.

best regards,

Jim

[Revi16]

White 1 with the EZ-42, Innsbruck-Hotting.

[Karoband]

Originally Posted by Revi16

White 1 with the EZ-42, Innsbruck-Hotting.

Good eye, Revi16. Thank you!

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Karoband

Hi Nick,

Thank you. That is truly a lot of detective work and it is appreciated. If I read your time line correctly, III./EJG 2 was absorbed on the 24th. For what it is worth, from Dan O'Connell, Me 262 The Production Log,, (Classic, 2005), p.217:

"25/04 Fw. Otto Kammerdiener of 10./EJG 2 transferred an EZ-42 equipped Me 262, "white 1" from Lechfeld to Riem between 20.25 and 20.40 for use by JV 44. Possibly W.Nr. 170047. [aau]" aau= Communication with Karl Rentschler

Three comments:
1. According to Robert Forsyth, Jagdverband 44 Squadron of Experten, (Osprey, 2008), p.28, Kammerdiener joined JV 44 on 11 March as an instructor from Fluglehrerschule der Luftwaffe.
2. The list of JV 44's pilots confirms Kammerdiener's immediately previous unit was "FLG.L.SCH. D. LW.".
3. It is likely Galland or Bär sent JV 44 pilots to Lechfeld to fetch intact Me 262 fighters of III./EJG 2, leaving the recce versions.

best regards,

Jim

Thanks. I think it's fairly certain that the machines evacuated from Lechfeld were all in München-Riem by nightfall on the 24th (sunset in Lechfeld on 24 April would be at 20.20 German Summer Time) and were either absorbed then or the next day.

Here's a couple more things I should have included in my chronology:

26 April:
The list of aircraft with JV 44 includes W.Nr. 111718 and 111748, both described as »Ruckführ-Flugzeug Lechfeld« (aircraft brought back from Lechfeld) and W.Nr. 111899 »Lechfeld-Messerschmidt« [sic]

A list of unit locations sent from 7. Jagd.Div. to Luftflotte 6 places JV 44 at Riem but does not mention III./EJG 2.

27 April:
The list of pilots with JV 44 sent to Lfl. 6 by Hptm. Gutowski includes nine from III./EJG 2 and one from II./EJG 2, adding that "JV 44 did not take over any photo-Me 262's".

[Matolion]

No Innsbruck-Hotting, but it was Innsbruck-Reichenau. W.Nr.170047, White 1 landed there by mistake together with W.Nr.500492, White 8. The other Me 262s landed at Innsbruck-Hotting as planned

[David E. Brown]

Jim,

From analysis of photos, documents and some deductive reasoning I have the following Me 262s at Innbruck-Hötting and Innsbruck-Reichenau:

Innsbruck-Hötting (16)
?????? – White 4 (JV 44)
?????? – uncoded
110766 – Red 1 (Aus.Kdo.II./KG(J) 54, ex-I./KG 51)
111712 – uncoded (DLH)
111733 – White 12 (JV 44)
111751 – uncoded (JV 44)
111857 – uncoded (JV 44)
112317 – uncoded (DLH)
113357 – uncoded (JV 44)
113369 – uncoded (DLH)
113371 – uncoded (DLH)
500??? – uncoded
500??? – White 13 (JV 44)
500490 – uncoded (DLH)
500521 – uncoded (DLH)
500524 – uncoded (DLH)

Innsbruck-Reichenau (2)
170047 – White 1 S (JV 44, ex-III./EJG 2)
500492 – White 8 S (2./Fl.Ü.G. 1, ex-III./EJG 2)

Best,

David

[Karoband]

Hi David,

Thank you! Using your criteria, this is what I have:

Innsbruck- Hotting (23)

A) Along the Kranebitter Allee (west to east):
1. 500490 - uncoded (DLH)
2. 111857 - uncoded (JV 44) (overpainted red 13? ex. III/EJG 2?)
3. 500524 - uncoded (DLH)
4. 110766 - red 1 (JV 44) (ex. E.Schwarm Me 262 G.d.S. attached to 2./KG 51)
5. 111730? - white 12 (JV 44) (ex. E.Schwarm Me 262 G.d.S. attached to 2./KG 51?)
6. 111751 - uncoded (JV 44)

B) In northwest meadow near the "dilapidated barn" (east to west):
7. 11???? (112360?) uncoded - (DLH)
8. 113371 - unpainted (DLH)

C) Furthest west from runway (north to south):
9. ?????? - ?
10. ?????? - ? (one of these may be Galland's double chevron per Haase's flugbuch)
11. ?????? - ?

D) In the curve of the south-west corner (north-west to south-east):
12. 111712 - unpainted (DLH)
13. 170 061? - white 4 (JV 44) (ex. III/EJG III?)
14. 500??? (500529?) - uncoded (DLH)
15. 500228 - 9K+CN red C (Landau) (ex. II/KG 51)
16. 500??? (500389?) - uncoded (DLH)
17. 11???? (113334?) - uncoded (JV 44)
18. 500??? (500493?) - uncoded (DLH)

E). Adjacent to the "farm house" (north-west to south-east):
19. 113357 - uncoded (DLH)
20. ?????? - ?

F). Along the south river road near the shed with the Ju 87 beside it (west to east):
21. 130183 - 9K+EL (Straubing) (ex. I./KG 51)
22. 113??? (113368?) - white 13 (JV 44)
23. 113369 - uncoded (DLH)

Innsbruck- Reichenau (2)

1. 170047 - white 1 S (ex. III./EJG 2, JV 44 to Brunnthal)
2. 500492 - white 8 S (ex. III./EJG 2, JV 44? to Brunnthal)

best regards,

Jim