Eagle Days: Life and Death for the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Thanks John, for giving us a glimpse of the Chapter 8 and the kind of juice we got at the end of pressing up the oranges...not too much for my taste, sadly.

I would like to know how many books or references are quoted on the Bibliography and if she read some of you, who published before she was born, books about the Battle of Britain History when the veterans were still alive and you had direct contact with them....

Each chapter you are passing through are giving us a clearer overview; and in my mind and humble opinion (without a Master or PhD degree), I do have already a formed opinion...but maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

And by the way, I loved the story of the 6 men. Shall print that and keep at hand...

A.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

I would like to know how many books or references are quoted on the Bibliography

A.

See my post #78 above. There is no separate bibliography, sources are identified in the notes on each individual chapter. My own impression was her list of primary and secondary sources was respectable — even if the words 'Bletchley Park', Enigma' and 'ULTRA' do not appear in the index.

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

ILW soldiers somewhere on or from Germany…does not seems to be related directly to the Battle of Britain…(did she interviewed him personally? From where she obtained that first-hand information or letter?).

She explains in the book that she used archives in Germany which hold personal letters and diaries. I think from memory that the Institut für Zeitgeschichte was one of them.

[John Vasco]

Adriano,
She hasn't referenced any of my books.

I'll list those researchers/authors she has referenced later.

And Kipling's six serving men. Not only useful for researchers, but also for everyone who reads historical works. You can always apply those tests to what you are reading. Very useful.

[John Vasco]

Chapter 10 read

Nothing about the second attack on Manston on 14 August.

One paragraph about the action on 15 August, talking about the losses on both sides.

In the footnote on page 164 reference is made to the combat against Luftflotte 5 in the early afternoon of 15 August, and states ‘at no cost to the defenders’. She has obviously not done sufficient research into the Luftflotte 5 incursion, because the following was recorded by Fighter Command:
605 Squadron. Hurricane P2717. P/O K Schadtler-Law – wounded. Hit by return fire. Force-landed near Hart railway station and admitted to Hartlepool hospital with suspected crushed vertebrae, laceration of scalp and concussion. P/O Schadtler-Law did not fly again operationally.

605 Squadron. Hurricane P3827. F/O C Passy – safe. Hit by return fire off Newcastle. Force-landed and wrecked one mile from Usworth.

605 Squadron. Hurricane P3308. F/Lt A McKellar – safe. Damaged by return fire off Newcastle.

79 Squadron Hurricane. P/O Millington – safe. Damaged in combat.

She also states in the footnote ‘the Germans losing between fifteen and twenty Luftwaffe aircraft over north-east England’. It may be nit-picking on my part, but the actual total was 21 aircraft lost, between KG 26, KG 30, and I./ZG 76. This information has been available in ‘Battle of Britain Combat Archive’, volume 4, by Simon Parry, since 2017.

Nice account of the Stuka attack on 18 August from Kurt Scheffel, one who got back wounded from the mauling the Stukas received on that day.

Quoted Bechtle, Rieckhoff, and Deichmann, although she states that Deichmann ‘brought up the same myth’ re the Bf 110 fighter needing 109 escort in the BoB. She mentions the Bf 110 losses up to the end of August, but no mention of the Bf 109, which, on a pro-rata basis with regard to the number deployed, got equally malleted over the Channel and England. Some pages on radar (sic), and statistical information about losses, and inflated claims.

Page 176 footnote: ‘Geschwaderkommodore was often translated as ‘Wing Commander’, but this is not quite accurate – it was more of a position than a rank that technically translates to a ‘Wing Commodore’. Now I don’t know where she got this information from, but my understanding of a ‘Wing’ in the BoB was that of 3 squadrons, with a fourth sometimes tagged on as well. A Geschwaderkommodore had oversight of three Gruppen [9 Staffeln] (ZG 26, ZG 76), or two Gruppen [6 Staffeln] (ZG 2).

Galland’s ‘Squadron of Spitfires’ is mentioned. Yawn.

Mentions an order of 22 August from the Air District Command Western France re the need of Commanders to ‘commit themselves to impeccable driving discipline within their area of command’. So that accidents and deaths on the road did not occur. What? This is in a book on the Battle of Britain?

Finally a mention of the introduction of the Ju 88 and the initial problems encountered with it, quoting Peter Stahl.

[Chris Goss]

Alfred Price was in touch with Scheffel and his story is in The Hardest Day so again not new as such

[robert]

I do have manuscript of Scheffel`s memories. There are approx. 20 pages about this mission.

[FalkeEins]

I've bought the book. Its certainly well written and there's some considerable research behind it. I'm (sort of) enjoying it. But as some have pointed out, she's a 'professional' historian - this is not some random re-telling of the Luftschlacht um England. Hopefully this won't 'spoil' the ongoing review, but having been asked to think about the author's 'goal' in writing the book the way she did, I'm starting to understand why she has not used too many post-war accounts from those directly involved and preferred period diaries and letters.

No 'white-washing'.

Chapter 18 entitled 'Better liars than flyers' (not in quotation marks...although it should be) might indeed be described as 'revelatory' or 'ground-breaking'.

There, I've said it.

You can probably guess what's coming - in fact page 325 is barely believable and genuinely shocking....

[Adriano Baumgartner]

I will keep as John Vasco wingman onto this thread...
No cross-check with RAF ORB's? No cross check with some available KTB at BAMA? No cross-checking of LW and RAF losses at BAMA and other post-war published books?
No quotations from some well known and relevant published works (post-war, of course) on the BoB? Obscur footnotes from German Newspapers (some we can find digitalized), letters from some N.C.O's deep inside Germany or stationed somewhere on the Western Front, but not directly related to BoB flying units (maybe she is looking at civilian morale or the morale of the troops....am not sure here about her proposals....since those letters are not directly related to the BoB).
And indeed John....historically speaking, "circa 15-20" is not, mathematically speaking too, equal to 21 losses....

Thanks again John for sharing your views on Chapters 9 and 10....we're getting a CLEAR view of her unclear and blurred work, in my humble (without Master or PhD Degrees and not a Graduation on History, rather Journalism) perspective.

P.S.: I shall keep on your wing, even inverted, onto this thread.

[Chris Goss]

Don't forget who controlled German papers at the time-Dr Joseph Goebbel's Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda (Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda). I would be very careful as to using such as a balanced report. Page 325? Do enlighten us!

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

Don't forget who controlled German papers at the time-Dr Joseph Goebbel's Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda (Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda). I would be very careful as to using such as a balanced report. Page 325? Do enlighten us!

Just checked that page (getting ahead of myself). The odd Lw person joining in with executions of jews.

Trying hard to understand her point in relation to the sub-title of the book, which is 'the LUFTWAFFE in the BATTLE OF BRITAIN'...