16th April 1943 - Mediterranean Spit losses

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Leendert

Being very late to this thread, I have some questions regarding the Spitfire losses this date.
AB502 certain (unit and date fits)
ER116 certain (unit and date fits)
ER858 certain (unit and date fits)
EP702 ??????? All I have on this Spitfire is that it went to Malta passing Gibraltar and was damaged on this date. Why do you link it to Tunisia? Have you any additional data for this?
ER502 ??????? All I have on this Spitfire is that
a) it was used by 601/225 Sqn and SOC 26.4.45 (Halley, Air Britain) or
b) it was sent on vessel Camaratha Leith to Takoradi where it arrived on 14.12.1942. Transferred to the Middle East on 1.1.1943. No units known but lost on 16.4.1943. Same question here, why do you link it to Tunsia?
It seems Halley has made a mistake here and version b is correct...

Cheers
Stig

[Leendert]

Stig,

Linking EP702 and ER502 to just Tunisia has been optimistic from my part.
Looked for Spitfires lost/damaged on 16-4-43 in N Africa area in the first place to get Adriano on the way.

According spitfires.ukf.net ER502 FTR Middle East without detail, and for EP702 it says damaged by enemy aircraft. I assume for the latter that it was in the N. Africa area, because it had passed Gibraltar earlier.

Regards,

Leendert

[SteveB]

The individual record card for each RAF aircraft (Form 78) which was held in the UK does not record allocations to squadrons in North Africa or MTO. Normally the card will record only the date despatched from UK to wherever (Takoradi or Casablanca) and the date that it was confirmed as arriving ie the details in Stig's (b). The card may record other bits of info for example from censuses that were undertaken or the date the a/c was lost or SOC.

The details of sqn allocations for a/c sent to MTO and recorded by Jim Halley in the AB books will have been collected by going through all the sqn ORBs so that is almost certainly where the details "601/225" in Stig's (a)come from.

I would say that it is quite possible that both sets of info at (a) and (b) apply to the same a/c ie it was shipped to Takoradi; it was presumably air ferried to Egypt and then confirmed "on charge Middle East". AB suggests that it was then issued to 601Sqn and at some point transferred to 225Sqn.

Like all clerical systems there is always room for error and board members will be aware of many errors in recording of a/c serials in ORBs.

Steve

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Steve

You are absolutely right, I should have checked the whereabouts of 601 Sqn AND 225 as well, since both were sent to NA. I wonder from where the written off date of ER502 is to be found?

Thanks Leendert

Not saying you're wrong, just that our sources don't 100% nail any if these two losses to this combat, just that they occured the same day...

Cheers
Stig

[Franek Grabowski]

Adriano
Ian Shand passed away a few years ago in Rhodesia, Zimbabwe by then. I think I have a photo of him somewhere, taken in April 1943.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello Franek!
It would be nice!
P/O Bruce Edward Anderson ( J/17616 ) was killed on 25th April 1943, I think he was the then F/Sgt ANDERSON, mentioned earlier.
Anybody has a clue about the names of the pilots shot down?
Adriano

[CENTURION]

Hello Adriano,

out of the four Spitfires lost that day in Tunisia, one (flown by FOW. K. Clarke of the 111 Squadron, KIA, probably ER502) is shot down at about 7 pm near Beja during a fight with Me109s and therefore it's not related to the fight we are describing.
The other three are shot down near Cap Bon. One was flown by Wg. Cdr. I. R. "Widge" Gleed of the 145th Squadron (KIA, IR-G AB502); the other two by his wingman, Sgt. J. K. Rostant (seen by another pilot bailing out) and by an unknown pilot (ER116 and ER858).
According to Italian pilots, one of the Spitfire pilots they claimed, was rescued by the torpedo-boat Libra.


Regards
Marco

[Franek Grabowski]

Marco, Widge Gleed was Wing Commander, sorry, forget the number at the moment.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello Marco!
Thanks again for clarifying the Air Combats over the Desert on that day!
I first thought that JG 77 had claimed 4 Spits ( from your first post here ). Now you clarified that possibly ER502 was shot down on another combat, much later, which brings new light to the combat I am researching.
W/C Gleed´s service number is RAFO 37800. He was promoted F/L on 3 September 1940; got the DFC on 13 September the same year and was promoted S/L on the 1 September 1941. I do not got his promotion to full Wing Commander and actually do guess he was Acting Wing Commander. ( Will check later ).
By the way, he was OC of 244 Wing and I read somewhere that:
1- He was homosexual ( is that information correct ?)
2- That there was an OC of 244 Wing who was later killed ( but I did not find anything about him ) named W/C Jack Darwin. Does anybody have heard about him?
Thanks a lot for the help. By the way Marco, any clues against which Luftwaffe or Italian Squadron that 111 Squadron pilot faced on his last combat? ( 7 PM )
Yours
Adriano

[Chris Goss]

33237 Wg Cdr John 'Jackie' Darwen was CO 244 Wg from Apr-Jun 42 then 243 Wg and back to 244 Wg until Mar 43. KIA 7 Oct 43 with 239 Wg