Bodenwöhr Waldwerk - Mtt Bf 109 K-4 assembly lines 1944 - 1945

[Charles Bavarois]

Gentlemen,

a lot of new information here and a really inspiring thread. The mist around Wertheim seems to get clearer now, but please have a look at the attached pictures:

Picture "wing" shows, that the wings in front of the Wertheim tunnel have small wing-bulges and so are not intended to be fitted to K-4s. The same with the picture "engines": the large tank in front of the engine is of the smaller Fo 897 type, not the large Fo 970 shown in picture "cowlings". I also think, that the small bulges under the nose are missing. Therefore the engines are DB 605 AS and not DB 605 D type. AFAIK no AS-engines were fitted to K-4s.

As for the K-4s standing in a row within a wooded area: the camouflage is of the segmented "Flössenbürg" pattern and has no "snake" at the bottom of the fuselage. Just have a look at the attached picture "row". I have to apologize for masking this foto, but I can't remember, where it´s from and perhaps it is copyright protected (any hint on its owner wellcome!).

HTH

Carl

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by Charles Bavarois

Gentlemen,

As for the K-4s standing in a row within a wooded area: the camouflage is of the segmented "Flössenbürg" pattern and has no "snake" at the bottom of the fuselage. Just have a look at the attached picture "row". I have to apologize for masking this foto, but I can't remember, where it´s from and perhaps it is copyright protected (any hint on its owner wellcome!).

HTH

Carl

Dear Karl,

I just found your source for this picture: Janowicz, Kr. (2006), Messerschmitt Bf 109 G/K Vol. III, Monography 29, Kagero. It originates, like so many others, from the James V. Crow collection.

Cheers
Marc

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi there the Wertheim Waldwerk gang,

I just received from Kees Mol the original caption for the Schlossberg tunnel northern entrance picture (Noro, 102, pic #137). This photograph is part of a serie of six pictures taken by T/5 Robert F Stubenrauch on 2 April 1945 illustrating the Bf 109K-4's and subassemblies found "near Wertheim".

Kees kindly agrees to uploading this caption which settles the following issues:

- Place and date of the photographs
- Wertheim was considered as an assembly place for Bf 109's by the US Army
- Engines and wings were stored in the Schlossberg tunnel
- 25 airframes, covered with tarpaulins and branches were "in new condition", dispersed in the surrounding woods.

All my thanks to you, Kees!


Dear Carl,

You're correct, we have an issue here... Unless one thinks about the hectic situation the German industry tried to upkeep. A naive question first: Was there any real impossibility mating those wings and engines to Bf 109K-4's fuselages? The patchwork Bf 109K-4 "Black 1" of 10. /JG 51, Ronne stadium, 4th May 1945 (Poruba and Mol 2000, 70 - 73) certainly tells another story. It would be thus no surprise to have patchwork airframes assembled in Wertheim as a last desperate effort to finish some more machines with what was availaible; just my two cents, ofc!

- And thanks for the other pic showing those Flossenburg Bf 109K-4's neatly lined up in another forest... Roland, any other pics in this respect (I'm discreetly pointing towards your morning offer;-)))

Cheers
Marc

[masmar]

Hi guys,
in addition the promissed pictures of the Bodenwöhr Waldwerk remains. There's not much left beside some transportation tacks in crossed arrangement, grooves in the ground where kind of conveyers might have been installed, a helmet left by a guard, some barbwire, the former shooting range is still visible and a lot of 13mm bullets can be found at it's end. The areal is pretty big. From it's center you can go 300 metre before reaching the border. Assembly stand can be identified by relics which are still in the ground. This has nothing to do with the Wertheim assambly, but might be interesting as well.

Thousand thanks to Kess for making that picture available and thank you Marc for posting it. I demonstrate respect for how you all fixed that pieces of the puzzle together.
So, Wertheim is proven as a further chain link in this end-war Messerschmitt production complex.
Questions which are still open are:
- In which degree was produced and when did it start?
-Why are the in Wertheim found fuslages within the Cham Werknummern-block?
- Was there a sub-assembly as well or did they recieve the finished wings an fuslages for final assy. That's especially important on the question where this "snake-painting-style" came from and where is the link to that pictures with the heap of K-4- fuslages?
-Who delivered the devices?
-Where they integrated into Mtt. Regensburg
Perhaps this might be the next steeps, now that we see the Wertheim situation much clearer. I know that's no easy task, but i would wish, that we can find some more details, maybe at least fractional.

Matthias

[RolandF]

Hi Marc,

I didn´t forget my offer. My scanner is in my office, so I´m able to scan the pics tomorrow.
All I can say up to now is - the fuselages wear classic Flossenbürg-style camouflage. Sprayed on all its surfaces with RLM 76 on the belly, RLM 83 as background for the Balkenkreuz, the rest segmented in RLM 75.
The difference to the "snaked" version seems to me the absence of RLM 76 for the belly, thus showing bare aluminum. The "snake" is a spray of RLM 76 to raise the division line outside of the Balkenkreuz for unknown reasons.
According to Schmoll producers for fuselages were
- "Gauting"-Hagelstadt
- KZ Flossenbürg
- KZ Mauthausen-Gusen

Interestingly Gusen delivers to
- Bodenwöhr-Mappach
- Vilseck-Heringnohe
- Obertraubling
but also to
- "Gauting"-Hagelstadt
- KZ Flossenbürg
Where the paintjob was done, is very confusing, the photographs being contradictory to Schmoll´s statements. Schmoll speaks about camo being applied in Vilseck, but I have almost fully-camouflaged Bf109s standing at Flossenbürg railway station. KZ prisoner Jan Szopa tells about spraying jobs in Flossenbürg. So Vilseck may have added only some corrections after having attached the wings. This may point to where such "snake"-painting may have been done...

It seems to me some parts of the final assembly originally located at Obertraubling, Cham-Micheldorf and Vilseck-Heringnohe was externalized to Wertheim.

Regarding this the "Gauting"-Hagelstadt/Obertraubling line is the main suspect for me because they were eagerly involved into the changeover towards Me262 production.

The Bf109G-14 and G-14/AS have been produced in Cham, too until March 1945. Was the Bf109K-4 final assembly taken out to Wertheim?

Considering this arguments this is my hypothesis:
-The full-camo fuselages originate from Flossenbürg and were almost completed at Vilseck and the semi-completed parts sent by rail to Wertheim for final assembly.
-The "snake" camo fuselages originate from Bodenwöhr-Mappach and were almost completed at Vilseck etc.etc.
-The pile of fuselages are roughly completed fuselages from Bodenwöhr intended for semi-completion at Vilseck. The landscape has many similarities with the countryside between Vilseck and Heringnohe. The railway on a dam at the horizon may be the Weiden-Nuremberg line passing Vilseck.
-With a certain probability you can exchange "Gauting" for Bodenwöhr.

Any corrections are welcome.

Regards

Roland

Nice photographs, Matthias. Here you can see what´s left of this "Waldwerke" after 64 years...

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi there Matthias and Roland,

No hurry, Roland; after having settled together so many issues this week-end about known or unknown Waldwerke, I will certainly be able to catch some sleep tonight...

Thanks also to you and Matthias for summing up the questions remaining around the RLM 76 snake against bare metal issue. Your location proposal for the fuselages pile makes me feel confident this will also be solved in the near future.

Matthias, thanks for your Bodenwöhr pictures; I especially appreciate the Holzrückerweg shot, as one reflexively wonders why no airframes show on them like on the pic posted by Carl...before remembering 60+ years have now elapsed. And thanks also for your praise; but pleasse, remember you are the one to be praised for this thread: you started it all with your question over at LEMB.

By Googling, I did find quite a few websites delving with other Mtt production places like:

Eschenlohe: http://www.herbert-thiess.de/Ente/
Oberammergau: http://www.herbert-thiess.de/Laber/

Eschenlohe production unit's plan is quite fascinating, being nested in two road tunnels: http://www.herbert-thiess.de/Ente/Tunnelplan-X1200.png

Measuring the wealth of documents remaining to be published, I wish you guys unite your knowledge for accomplishing this publication which will be definitely fascinating. I will be always at the ready for any further help at analyzing surroundings shown on your pictures

Cheers
Marc

[RolandF]

Okay, guys, here we go:

- Workshops showing fuselages in different states of main assembly - watch the machine-guns and instrument board ready to be fitted and Erla-Hauben already attached
- fuselages outside the workshop, the western hall of two Mtt assembly halls, to the left the road down to the railway station, to the right the way to the quarry. The building has disappeared, the plateau still existent with an apartment building erected on the southern part.
(source JaPO: Bf109K-camouflage and markings)
- fuselages stored at Flossenbürg railway st., in the background Flossenbürg castle with the KZ right at the foot of the hill
the hall to the left is part of the station, the hall to the right is the Mtt "Zerlegebetrieb". Area is now occupied by a factory processing light alloys.
(source EE: WOTBC 1)
last pic: workshop interior
(source web)

Regards

Roland

[masmar]

Servus Roland,
Thank you for the Flossenbürg pictures. I never have seen one of those before.Really geat!
Your hypothesis from #30 sounds pretty plausible to me. In large parts that's my basic thought as well.
Do you have any idea how the fuselages from Bodenwöhr could have been brought to Vilseck? Was there any direct connection?

Hi Marc,
Just Yesterday I stumbled over the Plauen picture again and thought that this might be a further issue for our round
My first idea was that they're ones of the limited K-4 production in Erla Leipzig. That would fit geographically. What do you think?

regards
Matthias

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hallo Roland,

Thanks so much for sharing those pictures; I didn't know the last two ones and am very glad to have them now. They show excellently the Flossenbürg camouflage pattern.

On my side, I bring also in this thread this already often published picture documenting unpainted Bf 109K-4's fuselages found at the Plauen railway station by advancing US troops in April 1945. Source: US Air Force picture, put online on www.footnote.com:

http://www.footnote.com/image/37222738/Plauen/

From which producer were there shipped? No camouflage pattern on those ones to help us along... Any ideas on your side, Matthias, Carl and Roland?

For the sake of having a complete Wertheim file, here comes the alst known to me picture taken on 2 April 1945 (Source: Flickr)

Thanks for your continued and most appreciated contributions! I do feel thought that Peter Schmoll's book will be under the Christmas tree at my home ;-))

Cheers
Marc

PS: Carl, any other pictures of those Flossenbürg camo pattern K-4 fuselages neatly stacked along a Holzrückerweg? Those shots are very interesting.

[RolandF]

Salut Marc,

Plauen seems a bit far off concerning the Mtt Regensburg facilities. Maybe this is already part of the Erla web?

Regards

Roland