Change to Ed West's posting schedule

[robert_schulte]

Ok guys,
have you noticed, that since this thread got out of control, Ed did not post a single picture? Is this, what some people want? Think it over and calm down, perhaps Ed will continue posting then.
It would be a pity, if this thread is the reason for not posting any longer, and I could understand Ed, if this is so.

Regards
Robert

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by kormoran

John,

I don't want to argue with you but I think some of your arguments are
nonsense! As I sayed before you can't compare apples with oranges.
I don't know if anybody here is interested in a Gibson Les Paul. I would
collect warbirds I would have enough money. The original is better as
an photo of paper
But we speak about book projects. Let's think about the following:
I plan to make a new book about Bf 109, maybe we both together.
We have no friends, we both are enthusiast but we have no great collection
and not enough money. We would need 150-200 unpublished photos!
500-1000 each at ebay because we have to outbid sudek.
75000-200000 only for buying photos. Great! I guess we have to pass.
And art of van Gogh? Yes, but I don't know so many collectors who
spend millions to have arts like van Goghs. By the way - sudek is
collecting art and supports some museums...
You mentioned some researchers. Why don't they tell these people their
opinion? I think you are the only one here. Some researchers benefit
from sudek, some not. The first group don't want to admit, the second
don't want to attack sudek, his team, his followers. We would have the
big bang here. Please remember my words about envy and distrust.
No researcher would tell us about his connections to sudek's team because
most enthusiast and former supporters would be very angry with them.

And by the way, i think the best material of the museums and archives
you've mentioned are still published. So I think, a new Luftwaffe
enthusiast will have no good chance. And if you have a look hat series
of today (I don't want to name them) - most photos are well known.
Such well "researched" publications are absolutely worthless.

Regards,
Günter.

Günter,

Your latest post to me merits a reply. I made mention of 58-60 Les Pauls and van Gogh paintings to illustrate the relative pricing of items in this world, from a few hundred $s for a photo, to quite a few hundred thousand $ for a rare guitar, to many millions of $ for a van Gogh. That was all. Perhaps you did not understand this. To say my arguments are nonsense is not correct.

Your scenario about writing a book with 150 to 200 unpublished photos is quite correct. It applies to all authors nowadays. The reason is quite simple, and I will explain it to you. In the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s researchers/authors had the opportunity to meet and interview a lot of the WW2 veterans, and also get copies of their photos. That's how a lot of research came to be done, and resulted in a lot of books that are known today. Those researchers were lucky to be able to do so, and I count myself as one of those lucky ones. Nowadays a lot of the veterans have died, and the chance to do the kind of research done decades ago has now gone. Speaking for myself, my publishers have wanted a mix of old and new, and so I was able to provide what they wanted. Had they said: "All new, previously unpublished photos", I would have had to say to them: "No chance". That is a fact, and I do understand the plight that new researchers find themselves in. I don't believe it is caused by the present situation we find on e-bay, but rather it is down to the passing of so many of those who could provide first-hand information and photos. And don't forget, there were a lot of veterans who were never found by researchers, so their information/photos were never tapped into. Others were found, and declined to help. I had personal experience of that with 3 former flying members of Erprobungsgruppe 210, which was very disappointing to say the least.

With regard to the reserachers names I mentioned, I did so to illustrate that they post under their real name, not a nom-de-plume. Nothing more complicated than that. I was not asking them to speak up on my behalf at all, or to air their views on this thread.

You are probably right in saying that most, if not all, the best stuff from institutions are now out in books. But the fact that a photo is published in more than one book does not necessarily diminish the value of that book, if that photo is directly relevant to the text, or the theme of the book.

Regarding your last sentence, maybe you could tell us what these 'absolutely worthless' publications are?

John Vasco

[Jim P.]

Seems like we have a couple of junior members here who are in need of some schooling in basic economics. What Mr. Vasco has been so patiently trying to describe is otherwise referred to as supply and demand. The price of an item (any item in theory) will be determined by the demand for that item, i.e. what the consumer is willing to pay.

I would also take issue with the "absolutely worthless" publications comment. Geez Louise - if you think you're going to pick up a $10 Squadron/Signal publication and expect to get cutting edge research, I wanna drink what your drinking. You get what you pay for guys. You want rehashed photos - were you guys around in the 70s and 80s? The last 10-15 years has been a 'golden age' for WWII aviation. Many authors, including Mr. Vasco, have published some astonishing, all-new material, most of which could have only been dreamed of 15 or more years ago.

[Jan vd Heuvel]

Gentlemen,

what I don't like on some boards and I am seeing it on this board too are personal attacks on other members.

Where is the old fassioned courtisy ?

When you disagree with another member you can bluntly call him a liar but you can also have the courtisy to state that you disagree with his comments.

John Vasco is a well respected reasearcher and author and I agree with John that hiding behind an alias and bluntly stating that he is part of some conspiricy and by that he is able to access material that is unaccessible to others is such a (to me) unacceptable statement on an open board without presenting any proof of that.

I am one of the moderators on the AWF board and I will not allow such personal attacks on that board !

Everyone is entitled to express his own opinion as long as he expresses it in a civilised manner.

Now back to the basics of what started this discussion.

I am one of the active buyers of photo's on Ebay and in many times one of the high-bidders.

Do the postings of Ed West in any way influance the outcomes of the auctions ! To my opinion the postings of Ed make no difference at all !!!

I stated before I am retired and have the time to look through every auction on Ebay and be sure that big buyers such as Sudek13 with all his helpers will also have the same opportunity.

What makes a diference with Ed's postings is that many of you don't have the time to search for every photo on Ebay every day and that's where his postings are of help to many of you.

As an active buyer of photo's on Ebay I don't like it either that people with unlimited funds are in the arena today, but lot's of interesting photo's will still be obtainable, because Sudek13 doesn't buy all the photo's that are up for sale and in the end it all comes up to be able to recognise what is special and what is not.

Regards,
Jan

[edwest]

Courtesy is never old-fashioned. And it tries my patience to see many internet forums that contain people of the whiny and nasty sort. Freedom does not include treating your fellow man or woman worse than you would like yourself to be treated.



Ed

[kormoran]

Hello John,

I won't tell on this board which publications I've meant because
some authors and researchers are on this board too and they would
have some problems which my opinion. And I don't want to offend
these guys.

Jan, I thought you started a similar discussion some months ago,
you can find the thread here. The originally discussion was on LEMB.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=6372

But you've retracted your opinion later because of the hostillities of
other people. Now it's the same with Nemo and me, some people don't
understand what we want to say or say don't want. That's why I say
that sometimes it's better to hide the real name.
How do you feel about this: a well known authors is hiding his real name
behind a nickname here to get no later problems. You all own his books
and know his creditable work. Now he tells us his real thoughts in this
thread which he never could recognize under his real name.
Only a thought but possible. I only want to tell you that sometimes it's
necessary to keep the anonymity...

Regards Günter.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by kormoran

I won't tell on this board which publications I've meant because some authors and researchers are on this board too and they would have some problems which my opinion. And I don't want to offend these guys. Regards Günter.

Well, I'll tell you what offended me: your comment that 'if you have a look at series of today (I don't want to name them) - most photos are well known. Such well "researched" publications are absolutely worthless.'

The implication of that (and I hope I'm wrong) seems to be that pictures matter and words don't. Have you any idea of the effort it takes research and put together a narrative of 30,000 words (e.g. the Classic Colours softbacks), let alone 85,000 (a 256-page hardback in large format)?

I'd recommend judging books on whether they contain new information, not just new pictures. As far as I'm concerned a book should tell you something you didn't previously know or put forward a new argument - and that can be done with or without new photos. Believe or not, a book could be well researched and have genuine worth even if it didn't include a single illustration.

[John Vasco]

kormoran,

"...a well known authors is hiding his real name behind a nickname here to get no later problems. You all own his books and know his creditable work. Now he tells us his real thoughts in this thread which he never could recognize under his real name..." If this is the actual case, then I call bullshit on it. Whatever is wrong with an author holding a different view to other people? If he believes Ed is wrong to post current auctions, fair enough. Nobody on here should think any the less of him for his personal viewpoint. However, if he is hiding behind a nom-de-plume and hurling insults at people, (as has happened in earlier posts in this thread) then he is a prick. And I would tell him on this board, or to his face, even if it was someone I had known for years.

"...I only want to tell you that sometimes it's necessary to keep the anonymity..." So tell us when those times are. If a person wants to make valid points, or advance a sensible argument, then there is no need for anonimity. In a lot of cases, anonimity is the refuge of the internet troll, or someone who wants to bad-mouth someone else without anyone knowing who they are. In such circumstances, they are a Grade-1 shithouse. Period.

[kormoran]

Nick,

I see you don't understand me. OK, I would never say
something against well researched books. And you are right,
the texts are important or more important than the pics.
But who buys a well researched book without great photos?
Better, former unpublished photos! The first question is always:
"Are there any new photos of..." You can find masses of
examples at TOCH! And because lots of publishers try to make
a fast buck you have to choose carefully which new publication
you want to buy and which not. Enthusiasts with small pockets
can't spend so much for their hobby.
So you have to look for interesting contents - texts and photos.
Because lots of actual publications rehash well known
photos and facts again and again - often in real poor quality -
these books, series and magazines are absolutely worthless.
Who needs the 196th book about German fighters with
90% Bundesarchiv photos for example? You not and me
also not. That's it!

And John, yes I know, but you are not the one and only at this board...

Günter.

[John Vasco]

kormoran,

I don't know who you are, I don't know how long you have been interested in aviation/the Luftwaffe, I don't know whether you have ever written anything for publication in your life. So, I do not know how much knowledge you have of the publishing world. If you already know what I am going to write next, all well and good, but it may be of some interest to others who may not be aware of it.

There are several levels of readers in any specialist field, and the Luftwaffe is no exception. So, you would not expect someone new to the subject of the Luftwaffe to buy Ken Merrick's two recent volumes - the depth of explanation would almost certainly be above their heads. However, something like the Classic series of softbacks, or the Kagero series, would lead them into the subject quite well, and would also appeal to those with greater knowledge of matters Luftwaffe. Those softback books contain some photos that are are well known to the experienced Luftwaffe reader, but will be new to the novice. The point I make is that publishers have to appeal to a broad spectrum of readers, not just those already well versed on the subject. Using previously published photos goes with the territory. To be able to ALWAYS publish previously unpublished photos is a dream, not reality.

"...But who buys a well researched book without great photos?..." I'll tell you who. All those in their thousands, myself included, who got a copy of Stephen Bungay's 'The Most Dangerous Enemy' for starters. In my opinion, the best book ever written on the Battle of Britain.

And finally, perhaps you can tell me what this means exactly, because for the life of me I haven't got a clue: "...but you are not the one and only at this board..." When it suits you, you don't answer my points, but just come out with a further obtuse comment.