Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Nick,

Nick for president ! Enjoyed your striking observation about how the Germans handle their archives. I was quite surprised that the Bundesarchiv have succeeded to put some inventories online and anyone familiar with the old Findbücher will notice that it is more or less the same but then in a digital format... (sigh)

I did the labourous job to download all DEFE 3 files but with a fast internet connection it was not a burden.

In defence of the German archive authorities I must say that WW-2 is still a touchy subject so the WW-2 related archives are managed such that it rather discourages people than supporting historians with good intentions.

Marcel / Venlo

[Larry deZeng]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

Least of all me.

When I was researching at Freiburg I came to the conclusion that life would be perfect if Germany ran our public transport and Britain ran their archives. TNA have been refining and simplifying their services throughout the 25+ years I've been going there, so I doubt that the present downloading system will be their last word.

Today's whining and complaining aside, the British NA is far better organized than our NARA. The generally accepted reason is because the Brits purged many of their WW II records in the late 1940's making the remainder much more manageable. The Yanks on the other hand, saved every last scrap of paper and as a result ended up with an unmanageable mess.

L.

[AndreasB]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Today's whining and complaining aside, the British NA is far better organized than our NARA. The generally accepted reason is because the Brits purged many of their WW II records in the late 1940's making the remainder much more manageable. The Yanks on the other hand, saved every last scrap of paper and as a result ended up with an unmanageable mess.

L.

I am just imagining BA-MA being worse than NARA... Well that thought just makes me shudder...

TNA definitely is streets ahead of NARA though.

All the best

Andreas

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Today's whining and complaining aside, the British NA is far better organized than our NARA.

L.

Once TNA allowed readers to use cameras, the world changed as far as I was concerned. I don't get there that often and so the ability to gather large amounts of material in a day and sort out what it means after you get home is a world away from the old method of taking notes by hand.

[AndreasB]

I think the best I ever managed was 1,300 photos in a day, and with good planning going north of 1,000 is no problem. The problem is getting through the material once you are at home!

All the best

Andreas

[jim norton]

Originally Posted by AndreasB

I think the best I ever managed was 1,300 photos in a day, and with good planning going north of 1,000 is no problem. The problem is getting through the material once you are at home!

All the best

Andreas

hi,

by the way: are the defe3 files worth reading? i didn´t manage to download them, but a friend told me that there is only naval stuff in them, isn´t it?

all the best
jim

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by jim norton

hi,

by the way: are the defe3 files worth reading? i didn´t manage to download them, but a friend told me that there is only naval stuff in them, isn´t it?

all the best
jim

(a) Yes.
(b) No.

If you look at the file descriptions the naval ones have contents with serial numbers starting ZTPG or similar. The ones with the Luftwaffe/Army signals start with two letters, e.g. VL, HP, BT and KO.

[AndreasB]

Originally Posted by jim norton

hi,

by the way: are the defe3 files worth reading? i didn´t manage to download them, but a friend told me that there is only naval stuff in them, isn´t it?

all the best
jim

What Nick said.

Otherwise, my experience with them is restricted to Mediterranean Oct 41 - Feb 42. In this timeframe, I'd guesstimate probably more than half is navy, with another 40% air force, and the rest army.

All the best

Andreas

[jim norton]

hi andreas and nick,

thanks for this info! too bad i still cannot download the files :-(

all the best
jim

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by jim norton

hi andreas and nick,

thanks for this info! too bad i still cannot download the files :-(

all the best
jim

It's King Arthur pulling the sword from the stone — you have to be noble and pure in word and deed!