Erich Hartmann - several questions

[Nikita Egorov]

Originally Posted by Nokose

Okay. I should have put a "?" there. Rob, Thanks for the answer on the camera aircraft.

I suppose yes, at least for the time being.

[kennethklee]

I apologize if this question was already addressed and I missed it--is Hartmann's record of having lost only one wingman (Capito who bailed out and survived) in combat true, or at least as best can be established by documentation?

Thanks,
Ken

[Nick Beale]

Another reason for the shortage of gun cameras in the Luftwaffe was that the German armed forces were generally "poor" compared to the Anglo-Americans. Germany simply did not have the industrial capacity to provide all the technical aids that were available to the Western Allies.

[Pilot]

Originally Posted by DiegoZampini

[Matheu

Other example is the combat when he was shot down on 20 August 1943: according his account in his autobiography written by Trevor Constable, he shot down two Il-2s when was hit by flak, belly-landed and captured by a short period of time (later he evaded).
If fact Khazanov could determine, that according to the Soviet records, what Hartmann attacked was a group of Shturmoviks of the 232 ShAP. One of the Il-2 pilots, Leytenat Pavel Evdokimov, saw how a "Messer" jumped his buddy V. Ermakov, and shot at close range a 20-mm burst against the Bf.109, which performed a belly-landing - indeed this was Hartmann's Bf.109G-6. No Il-2 was lost by 232 ShAP that day, even when two were damaged. Once again, Hartmann "kills" were overclaims (even when in this case seem that both were in good faith). And he was not downed by flak, but by Shturmovik pilot Pavel Evdokimov.

Diego

This is very interesting- any additional info about the Leytenat Pavel Evdokimov as well Hartmann machine which was shot down?

P.S. sorry for re start old topic, hope this is not problem

[ahafan]

As in the film-(the blue Max) stachel tells krupp-I saw him crash.
krupp'' says- sorry -No wittnesses No Claim.;
RULE's..
but I did see him CRASH''!!
Maybe'' Fabian saw it;
IT WAS A KILL !!
then you have great satisfaction that you served your fatherland..
-
sorry im laughin very hard..70 years ago- and a debate!!
--------
try the Red Barons..score..see if you can get the full facts.
I can't and im related to him..by my mums side of the family';

sharon

[kaki3152]

BTW,the best book on MAnfred von Richtofen is Norman Franks "Under the Guns of the Red Baron". It is the complete record of Von Richtofen's victories and victims.

[ahafan]

Originally Posted by kaki3152

BTW,the best book on MAnfred von Richtofen is Norman Franks "Under the Guns of the Red Baron". It is the complete record of Von Richtofen's victories and victims.

Hello'
ermm. how do i know that franks book.his correct? when you have this debate.;WW2 luftwaffe pilots scores been fraud;
I guess the red barons his too..
just a joke thanks all the same.
sharon

[ahafan]

My Father just made a point? say he was playing for his local soccar match-, and who gets the last goal.gets the £10.000 reward..
durin the game my dad shoots hits the Cross bar, the ball goes down on the line-and looks down in despair, ,then the refaree whistles -GOAL) were his the wittness-;-? -who says its a goal?
if no cameras are there ..who can dispute it.
my dad has to say it his. by the refarees, decision made..but feels a little beleted; a fraud..then says No keep the money'''
Now-that his honesty'''

Ask Maradonna.1986-if he his lying.

sharon

[Rob Romero]

Not only was Richthofen a reliable claimer, he made sure his unit was as well! A true ace of aces, tactician, and leader of men.

Jasta 11 Victory Claim Analysis: Adjusted Preliminary Conlcusions
% of Verified Victories (Pilot Identified) % of Verified Victories (Pilot or Unit Identified)
186 of 214 (86.9%) Claims with MvR at Front 194 of 214 (90.7%) Claims with MvR at Front
41 of 53 (77.4%) Claims with MvR on Leave 45 of 53 (84.9%) Claims with MvR on Leave
227 of 267 (85.0%) Claims with MvR as CO 239 of 267 (89.5%) Claims with MvR as CO

Richthofen’s Jasta 11 “Bloody April” Gang (1917)
33 of 33 Claims (100.0%) Kurt Wolff*
30 of 30 Claims (100.0%) Karl Allmenröder*
74 of 80 Claims ( 92.5%) Manfred von Richthofen
11 of 12 Claims ( 91.7%) Sebastien Festner KIA 25 Apr 1917
25 of 30 Claims ( 83.3%) Karl-Emil Schäfer
33 of 40 Claims ( 82.5%) Lothar von Richthofen
206 of 225 Claims ( 91.6%) EXCEPTIONAL CLAIM VERACITY!

[krichter33]

Wonderful post Rob!