Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

[chris toffel]

Hello experts of the LUFTWAFFE Research

In recent years, I have always eagerly monitored the results in the field of evaluation of the ULTRA HW5 series. Obviously, you can now - at least under the intent of a comprehensive and reputable research - not live without it.
A few images with interesting information splinter I occasionally receive from different directions already, which I am very grateful. Through observations and references you can pretty well get from one page to the next. So far so good.
But what to do if one lacks the prerequisites for even sift through the whole file inventory in Kew?
If I'm not mistaken, the interesting pages from HW5 but already have been photographed several times, which in NA (PRO) in contrast to BA is fortunately possible.
I also hold enormous respect for the work there days and weeks added implemented with the digital camera and page by page.
Is there anyway someone who is willing to give me his HW5 images for evaluation to be made available? I am also willing to pay a reasonable amount, as a kind of expense reimbursement.
Please, who is so kind and helpful to give me the necessary support ?
Thanks a lot.

Chris

[AndreasB]

What period?

All the best

Andreas

[Larry deZeng]

Isn't it possible to access and use the HW5 files directly from home now? Wasn't there a considerable amount of discussion on how to do this in one of the threads right here on TOCH! a few months ago?

I could not make it work for me, but perhaps Herr Toffel can try it and he will have better luck?

L.

[ju55dk]

No its only DEFE 3.

Junker

[chris toffel]

Originally Posted by AndreasB

What period?

All the best

Andreas

Thanks for the response,

my first indication is CX/MSS/T19/82 from December 43 but I would like to have a look from March 43 to May 45. Of course, this is much, but the small time I have for research I would like to go through the HW5 files step by step.
I do not expect that someone is me looking out the relevant pages for some keywords and returns home, but of course I want to try myself within my means to repay you. The problem is probably just that every so has his interests and the other because nothing can possibly begin with.
But I'll be glad if we can try.

Chris

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by chris toffel

... I would like to have a look from March 43 to May 45. Of course, this is much, but the small time I have for research I would like to go through the HW5 files step by step.

Chris, I think maybe you underestimate just how much that would be. Even if anyone copied the 492 files (= tens of thousands of pages and hundreds of thousands of messages) covering this period, you would need far more than "a small time for research" to go through it all. The references to earlier messages are always helpful but they are not infallible if you want to follow a subject.

You mention one message but you didn't say what its subject is (and it's not one I have). It is possible that someone here might have Ultra material on that subject and period, if they knew what you wanted.

[AndreasB]

Hi Chris, I'm sorry, but it's not a period I have covered.

All the best

Andreas

[Steve Coates]

I put a query to the PRO last year about the possibility of digitising HW5. This is their response:

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the Government Code and Cypher School: German Section: Reports of German Army and Air Force High Grade Machine Decrypts in The National Archives catalogue reference HW 5.

At present we have no plans to digitise this series and make it available online, but it is a series worthy of investigation, not least because it is fascinating and because it highlights the extraordinary work carried out by the intelligence service during World War II.

Prior to digitisation we need to assess the extent of any physical damage to the record series so as to determine the amount of conservation work required before scanning of the records can take place - as you know, we have a responsibility to preserve the integrity of the original document so digitisation cannot take place on any document until we have had the go-ahead from our Collection Care Department.

We also hold an in-house bi-monthly Forum where digitisation proposals are discussed and the appropriate resource can be allocated to digitise. HW 5 is a relatively small series of some 700+ pieces but would nevertheless therefore require significant resource to digitise either from The National Archives ourselves or from one of our commercial or academic partners.

I am sorry that I am unable at this stage to say exactly if this series will be available online but I wish to assure you that we do treat all such enquiries seriously whether they be from staff or members of the public. If and when we have firm details of any digitisation project concerning HW 5, we will publicise them.

Unfortunately. it's not likely to happen any time soon.

[Bruce Dennis]

Hi Steve,
A little update: I spoke with an 'Intelligence Expert' on the Kew staff just a couple of weeks ago and although there is support for digitising HW5, it is still not near the top of the list.

One of the features of the HW5 series is that it includes untranslated intercepted messages which makes it tricky to compile a meaningful index. This may affect their decision.

Chris, Nick Beale has given you good advice. If I may do the same, it is simply this: be as specific as you can about what you want. Name the dates first, and then any operations, units or the locations. If anyone on the forum recognises these perhaps you will get your help. Good luck!

Bruce

[AndreasB]

Agree with the advice.

Question, what's the AIR equivalent to DEFE3?

All the best

Andreas