German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

[researcher111]

Gospodin Gabor !

I red the aerodrome plate or chart you name it.....how on the earth you get access to all this rare stuff ? Do you have any similar period 1944 -45 such as Oradea, Medias, Debrecen, Satu Mare ?

[HGabor]

I have soviet 1944-45 airfield maps of Börgönd, Érsekcsanád, Taszár, Kiskunlacháza, but not for the ones you mentioned. :-(((

As a member of the researcher-team of the Szolnok Aircraft Museum, we work together with Russian researchers and friends/colleagues on the mutual aviation history of our Countries and Air Forces during WWII. Soviet records are from them. Telling you, the Russian TsAMO archives is a real W-O-N-D-E-R-L-A-N-D!!!

Regards,

Gabor

[researcher111]

Gabor

Yes Érsekcsanád could be of interest....regarding Gryalev B.Dimitrievitch ,where was he held POW , when
he escaped ...are there any documents ? All what I have is not returned from mission

[HGabor]

гв.мл.л-т Грылев Борис Дмитриевич

[HGabor]

I read somewhere that he was captured, but later escaped. But: this info was not part of soviet combat record: 9 IL-2 (commander: Feoktistov) protected by 4 La-5s attacked Apc area. When leaving the target, 4 'Fw 190's attacked them and Grilev's plane got downed. (Good chance that AC type was misidentified.)

"12:45 9 Ил-2 вед к-н Феоктистов и 4 Ла-5 взлет на цель Апч. В 13:20 при подходе к Хатван перенацелены на лес в 4 км севернее Хатван. Перестраивались в пеленг на Н-1000 м. В это время атакованы 4 ФВ--190, по правому ведомому замыкающего звена Афанасьеву, безуспешно. 1 ФВ атаковал Грылева, но Афанасьев его подбил. Ил-2 стали перестраиваться в правый круг, опять атака ФВ. Афанасьев ушел с курсом 180 гр на свою территорию и сел на колеса в Надькереш. 10 минут атковали круг, 1 ФВ атака изнутри круга на Ничипорук, его стрелок Волков сбил ФВ, который упал и сгорел. Грылев подбит и ушел с дымящимся мотором на свою территорию. НБЗ. Плюс еще сбили 1 ФВ и 1 Ме-109."

[HGabor]

Yes, I remembered right, first Grilev was taken POW. This doc mentions the partisans, etc...

[HGabor]

Folks,

Just some marginal data. On September 23, 1944 SG 2 Fw 190F pilots (Obstlt. Hans-Ulrich Rudel, Hptm. Karl Kennel, Uffz. Koppenhöfer) claimed 3 IL-2s in the Torda/Turda area. This day 5 VA, 7 GvShAD has lost 3 IL-2s indeed as follows:

5 VA, 130 GvShAP, IL-2, gv.ml.l-t Kravchenko
5 VA, 131 GvShAP, IL-2, gv.l-t Puhov
5 VA, 131 GvShAP, IL-2, gv.r-y Arkaev

Mechanical paper of 5 VA, 7 GvShAD (without crew lists) erased 7 IL-2s (as prev. days' losses) between October 1-15, 1944 to AAA (which, of course, -partially- could be dogfight as well):

IL-2m3, S/N: 10338
IL-2m3, S/N: 302787
IL-2m3, S/N: 302949
IL-2m3, S/N: 1873880, engine: 253297
IL-2m3, S/N: 11634, engine: 2510476
IL-2m3, S/N: 1877070
IL-2m3, S/N: 302765

No further info on matching crews, but chances are the 3 IL-2 losses listed above were among the 7 written-off serials of the 7 GvShAD.

I think reported SG 2 claims could be correct this time.

Gabor

[researcher111]

Gabor

Thanks for the info, the report doesn't state from which POW camp or captivity type escaped......thanks anyways

[HGabor]

Correct. It doesn't state it. (But for my research, it is completely irrelevant )
Cheers,

Gabor

[HGabor]

IL-2 No.1877070 can be taken out from the list of the potential SG2 victims on September 23, 1944. It was lost on October 1, 1944 at Torda/Turda-S, 3 km from 5 VA, 130 GvShAP. ml.l-t Semeryakov bailed out, gunner was killed. Plane was hit by flak over Torda/Turda-N, 5 km at Foleuchul(???) at 400 m altitude at 12:20, Moscow time.

Gabor