German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

[muggs_ro]

I think the location is Feleacul, only remark would be that it's ~ 20km N of Turda

[HGabor]

Yep, that could be it. Tx. But plane crashed far in the south.

[HGabor]

Folks,

Here is 1./SG 10 Fw 190F pilot, Oblt. Pohl’s list for 1944 over Hungary. So far he was the most reliable German fighter pilot I found (with more than 5 victories, which could be considered as a reliable ‘tendency’, not just a blind-luck with a single claim). Based on his ~100% accurate claims, Oblt. Pohl was a real ‘Lipfert category’, trustworthy (ace and) pilot:

Date:..............Reported AC:…..Real victim:

20.10.1944.......Fortress II........B-17G-60-BO, Fortress III, S/N: 42-102869, 15 USAAF, 5 BW, 483 BG, 2Lt. George B. Potter’s crew (O-822801, POW)
07.11.1944.......Yak-9..............Yak-3, S/N: 3214 (3229214), 5 VA, 13 GvIAD, 150 GvIAP, gv.l-t Pyankov (WIA)
17.11.1944.......U-2.................Po-2, S/N: 7352, engine: 12042, 17 VA, 262 NBAD, 97 GvNBAP, gv.p.p-k Styazhkov – gv.capt. Strik crew (OK)
20.11.1944.......La-5................La-5FN, S/N: 39212001, 17 VA, 295 IAD, 164 IAP, ml.l-t Strukov (OK)
20.11.1944.......La-5................Perhaps La-5, 17 VA, 295 IAD, 164 IAP, l-t Kuptsov (OK) – returned to airfield and broke
08.12.1944.......Boston III.........A-20B-DL, S/N: 41-3189, 17 VA, 244 BAD, 260 BAP, ml.l-t Zaitsev crew (3 MIA, 1 returned)
08.12.1944.......Boston III.........A-20G-20-DO, S/N: 42-86671, 17 VA, 244 BAD, 260 BAP, ml.l-t Kiryuhin crew (4 MIA)

Gabor

PS: What was his full name?

[Maxim1]

Originally Posted by HGabor

PS: What was his full name?

Forum member Johannes has it as Hubert. Oblt. Hubert Pohl made at least 7 claims.

[HGabor]

Folks,

Ofw. Paul Günther, 9./SG 10 had a single La-5 victory over Hungary on October 6, 1944. His victim can be identified as ст.л-т Кононов Анатолий Петрович (returned) in his La-5FN, S/N: 39211147, engine: 8211299, tactical '47' from 5 VA, 279 IAD, 486 IAP. IL-2s and their La-5 escort met 8 Fw 190Fs in the Békéscsaba area. Kononov was downed, he bailed out, and returned the next day on October 7, 1944.

(Ofw. Günther had more claims earlier, but still out of Hungary so I am not able to verify those.)

Gabor

[HGabor]

Maxim1,

Thank you.

Gabor

[Nokose]

From what I picked up in a Russian source it was 3 A-20 from 3 GMTAP KBF and 3 A-20 from 51 MTAP KBF but no idea on the fighter escort unit.

[HGabor]

Yes, looks like the 51 MTAP KBF has lost 3 A-20 Bostons to III/JG 51 fighters on September 22, 1944 indeed. (Zhilenkov's, Baranov's, Permyakov's crews - 9 KIA) Their total loss that day was 5 Bostons!

http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Morozov/Losses.html

Gabor

[robert]

Originally Posted by Nokose

From what I picked up in a Russian source it was 3 A-20 from 3 GMTAP KBF and 3 A-20 from 51 MTAP KBF but no idea on the fighter escort unit.

Nokose,

these A-20 were from 1 GMTAP and Jak-9 was from 21 IAP.

Regards

Robert

[robert]

Hi Gabor,

yes they are the crews in question but my both books list them under 1 GMTAP. Must be an error.

Regards

Robert