Eagle Days: Life and Death for the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by FalkeEins

... slightly more disturbing - and the first time I've come across this- is Taylor's description of a Luftwaffe pilot being invited to participate in mass killing, being handed an MG and relishing the experience of mowing down 1500 Jews...

From memory that incident came up in Söhnke Neitzel and Harald Welzer's book "Soldaten: On Fighting, Killing and Dying: The Secret Second World War Tapes of German POWs" and was taken from an SRA Report.

[edwest2]

Originally Posted by FalkeEins

... slightly more disturbing - and the first time I've come across this- is Taylor's description of a Luftwaffe pilot being invited to participate in mass killing, being handed an MG and relishing the experience of mowing down 1500 Jews...

Oh please. Then write a book about killing Jews. This book, based on comments here, is a train wreck. The praise of various people I've never heard of is not to the author's credit either. An account of the Luftwaffe with the varnish removed? And who applied this varnish? The British press? The pilots who were part of the Battle of Britain?

I've seen this before. Put the "testimonials" at the top to sell the book. As a potential reader, my first concern is, how much of this book is actually about the Battle of Britain? 10%? Less?

[John Vasco]

Here's the page, Ed. Page 325.

https://i.imgur.com/kQlMa4u.jpg

[edwest2]

Thank you John. Perhaps you, and others, might be interested in the following account. My mother, a non-Jew, is the character in the following.

The German occupation government rounded up teenagers in a Polish village in 1939. They were placed on cattle cars, with each car containing an individual called a "supervisor." As the train entered Germany, they were told it would not stop, only slow down. Moments before the jumping off point, they were shown how to throw off the one suitcase they were allowed to bring, followed by how they would jump off.

She would spend the rest of the war in Germany at a large farm. One day, RAF bombers appeared overhead. The target, a nearby railroad guarded by flak guns. A bomb fell short, and detonated nearby, throwing up a wall of dirt. She was buried but survived.

A neighbor of ours, a non-Jew, was sent to a concentration camp along with his father. Their crime? Trying to hide Jews. His father did not survive. As a boy, I noticed he always wore long-sleeve shirts, even in Summer. One day, when he did not wear it, I saw the long tattoo on his arm. Only later did I find out what it was.

[edwest2]

So, this is what we get at page 325 out of 432 pages. Sad. And not relevant.

[FalkeEins]

I disagree. The author explains that we have largely 'rehabilitated' the Luftwaffe - the 'chilvarous' foe in the Battle of Britain - and thereby glossed over the crimes committed by certain sections of this branch of the Wehrmacht. This was possible because opposing airmen imagined post war that they had shared a common experience, whereas in fact one group was fighting for freedom, the other for a tyrannical dictatorship. I think that's what she's saying...

[Adriano Baumgartner]

John Vasco,

Firstly thank you for sharing that particular passage and the two pages with us.....

'-About the mentioned Oberleutnant FRIED.
According to the long work (years) of De Zeng, the sole FRIED we do have on his huge list of LW Officers are:
FRIED, ? . 04.41 Lt., a Zugführer in 1. Btr. I./Flak-Rgt. 19 (gem.mot.).
FRIED, Hans-Joachim. (DOB: 25.08.19). c. 10.37 joined the Luftwaffe at Quedlinburg and sent to the FFS A/B
school at Güben followed by the FFS C and BFS courses at Fürth plus a number of additional courses
elsewhere. 03.39 trf to Kü.Fl.Gr. 106 at Kamp. 01.08.39 commissioned Leutnant. 01.41 now in 2./Kü.Fl.Gr.
906. 15.05.41 Lt., 2./Kü.Fl.Gr. 906 WIA - BV 138 C-1 (8L+BK) destroyed in an apparent accident at Hörnum.
10.41 trf to 2./Kü.Fl.Gr. 506? 01.04.42 promo to Oblt. 08.11.42 Oblt. and pilot in a trainee crew from
Kampfschulgeschwader 2 Grosseto, POW in Ju 88 A-4 (VS+HG) shot down into the sea 40 miles E of Algiers
by naval AA-fire while flying an evening torpedo attack on an Allied cruiser [Version#2: 08.11.42 Oblt.,
III./KG 26 MIA/POW - Ju 88 A-4 (VH+GZ) or (VH+OC)? apparently AA hit over the Mediterranean N of
Algiers.].
FRIED, Otto. 12.42 Oblt., appt Offz. beim Stabe in 20. Flak-Div. (to 05.43)

So, NOT one above do matches the description of that supposed Oberleutnant Fried, who flew on a Transport unit and was captured as a POW (she did not inform his unit, when he was captured...nothing more. Her information is from 1940? 1941? 1942? 1943? 1944?). Anyway.....

Second, if a former LW airmen had previously served on other branches of the III Reich, such as the S.A. or the S.S., what they did previously is not related to their Luftwaffe career. They were wearing other uniforms and under other rules, obeying other superiors, etc...so technically this is NOT related to the Luftwaffe itself and most particularly, to the TITTLE of the book this lady is selling (Battle of Britain).

Another good point....Raymond A. Lallemant, DFC; nicknamed "Cheval" was very fond of horses...and on some books (I will try to find the correct passages for adding here later, since they are not at hand now), it is said that he was very sad when he had to fire 20mm ammunition or 60 pounds rockets on the Whermacht troops using horse-drawn vehicles in Normandy (and post-Normandy), because he did not like to kill horses....So, for the British Historian, a German pilot saying the same quotation is a crime...but a RAF airman saying that he did not care with the lives of German soldiers and was more worried with the horses, this is not a crime too?

The mammoth work of this lady is becoming clearer and clearer for me...

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Before someone do critic the post on Oberleutnant FRIED...am not saying he did not existed and actually flew Transport airplanes (and was captured in the Battle of Britain flying Transport airplane? This is NOT clear on the lady's description)....surely there are officers that De Zeng have not found the file....but if memory does not fail me, he compiled almost 90 or 90+% of ALL Luftwaffe Officers Careers.....

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Just a another small correction on De Zeng (et all) huge work....92,914 officers listed from known 120,000...so 77,42% are on his site.....
So, technically and eventually this Oberleutnan FRIED mentioned by her may be on the 23% missing.....

https://www.ww2.dk/Lw%20Offz%20-%20G...tro%202024.pdf

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

Before someone do critic the post on Oberleutnant FRIED...am not saying he did not existed and actually flew Transport airplanes (and was captured in the Battle of Britain flying Transport airplane?

Like I said above, I read this story in Neitzel’s book with a specific SRA report cited as the source. Those reports are in the AIR40/ series at the National Archives. I’ve been using them for years and have no doubt as to their authenticity. They record real conversations between real people and the transcripts are usually available both in the original German and an English translation. As you can see from the image that John posted, Dr. Taylor also puts a reference against this passage which can be checked in her source notes.