Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

[Bruce Dennis]

CX/MSS/2872
“Senior Signals Officer to ENNA (word or two illegible) SUREN on 9/7:-
Storch damaged in night attack on TAORMINA. No other flying possibility here.
NOTE: Above stamped Div. GOERING.”


(this message is from 1943)

[Bruce Dennis]

From 1941:
Extracts from CX.MSS/26
16/6/41, 1/NJG Bf.110 E2, No. 4439 (tropics) sustained 100% damage. Marking L1 + PH.
Obltn. Hans OBERMAYER missing, W/T operator saved by Italian navy, search for pilot ‘unavailing’.

Above incident believed due to engine fault. Near ANAPHI island on recce flight area KYTHERA-CRETE-SCARPANTO-MOLOS

[Bruce Dennis]

Extract from CX/MSS/26, 1941:

20/6, I/JG. 27 Bf. 109 C-7 works number 6375 : 100% loss on take off, no injuries.
-
"Field Post No. L 02689 is connected with Field Court Martial of Fliegerfuehrer AFRIKA at present at H.Q. Aerodrome Regional Command BENGASI and can be reached at H.Q. Luftgau Post Office MUNICH. (21/6)"

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dennis

Extract from CX/MSS/26, 1941:

20/6, I/JG. 27 Bf. 109 C-7 works number 6375 : 100% loss on take off, no injuries.
-
"Field Post No. L 02689 is connected with Field Court Martial of Fliegerfuehrer AFRIKA at present at H.Q. Aerodrome Regional Command BENGASI and can be reached at H.Q. Luftgau Post Office MUNICH. (21/6)"

A Bf109 E-7(/Trop), Indeed.

[Bruce Dennis]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

A Bf109 E-7(/Trop), Indeed.

Interesting. I wondered when I typed the 'C - 7' if this was a typo, and have double-checked the original. It clearly says C-7.

I have no further knowledge of this particular a/c but this seems like a good time to shine some light on the process at BP used to compile these reports daily.
The Allied Intelligence Officers at BP used a grading system to show if there was any doubt about the decrypt or possible alternative meanings. If the 'C - 7' had been in question it would have been in brackets like this: (C - 7) and possibly with a letter grading (A), (B) (C) etc. which indicated how confident the compiler was; 'A' being 100% and 'C' being 'likely but use caution'. None of this happened in this passage in this CX/MSS report so the German text said 'C - 7'.

Hopefully posting works numbers will plug some holes in databases. I hope this helps.

Feedback is welcome.


Bruce

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dennis

Interesting. I wondered when I typed the 'C - 7' if this was a typo, and have double-checked the original. It clearly says C-7.

I have no further knowledge of this particular a/c but this seems like a good time to shine some light on the process at BP used to compile these reports daily.
The Allied Intelligence Officers at BP used a grading system to show if there was any doubt about the decrypt or possible alternative meanings. If the 'C - 7' had been in question it would have been in brackets like this: (C - 7) and possibly with a letter grading (A), (B) (C) etc. which indicated how confident the compiler was; 'A' being 100% and 'C' being 'likely but use caution'. None of this happened in this passage in this CX/MSS report so the German text said 'C - 7'.

Hopefully posting works numbers will plug some holes in databases. I hope this helps.

Feedback is welcome.


Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Might be a typo since the loss of this machine is clearly reported (same unit, same day, same cause, same result) at Ain-el-Gazala (Fl.Pl.)

Sources: (via Georg Morrison)
Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, V, p.375; Prien/Rodeike/Stemmer, Stab & I./JG 27, p.540

Regards,
Franck.

[Larry deZeng]

THE ULTRA "R" SERIES:

This is only my 3rd question out of nearly 7,000 posts on TOCH since 2001 using three different screen names, so my hopes are running high.

Here it is: I have researched my way through all of DEFE 3 and a great deal of HW 5, thanks to Andrew Arthy, "Sam" from Texas and several other kind colleagues. But I have never seen or much less researched the ULTRA "R" series (sample citation: MSS/R. 283(C)/32). QUESTION: is this series available online from BNA? If not, has anyone ever digitally photographed it and put it on CDs/DVDs? The "R" series seems to contain a lot of detailed information that, at the time, Bletchley considered too minor or too old to put in the main ULTRA CX/MSS/Txxx series.

Any information on this would be greatly appreciated!

Larry de Zeng

[Bruce Dennis]

Extract from CX/MSS/26, 1941:
Report by Fliegerkorps I on 2/7:
5 Bf. 109 F-2, Works No. 9569, 9583, 9572, 9584 and 9(?558?) are assigned to J.G. 54 from A/c Distributing Station BROMBERG.

-

Same document, re: Eastern Europe-
“O.C. Close Defence Battle Units. IA reported on 1/7 that IV/J.G. 51 had been moved to BARANOWICZE in accordance with the original orders, as the orders cancelling the move had not been received.
Same source had already reported earlier on 1/7 to Fliegerkorps II that IV J.G. 51 and III Stuka (1?) were to be moved forward to MINSK on 2/7, and asked for the allocation of 5 Ju. 52s to each of the Gruppen for the purpose.”

[Bruce Dennis]

Extracted from CX/MSS/31 (July 1941)

“On 1/7 Luftflotte 5 informed the Air Officer for North Norway that it appeared from a report on damage that the He. 60 a/c DA + KX of K.Gr z.b.V 108 had been employed for reconnaissance on 28/4/41. Special employment of this nature should in future only occur after consultation with the L.G.Kdo. or Luftflotte”
-
Also, on 1/7, Ju 52 BI + LA of I/JG 54 was out of service while undergoing a 50 hour test.

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dennis

Extract from CX/MSS/26, 1941:
Report by Fliegerkorps I on 2/7:
5 Bf. 109 F-2, Works No. 9569, 9583, 9572, 9584 and 9(?558?) are assigned to J.G. 54 from A/c Distributing Station BROMBERG.

-

Same document, re: Eastern Europe-
“O.C. Close Defence Battle Units. IA reported on 1/7 that IV/J.G. 51 had been moved to BARANOWICZE in accordance with the original orders, as the orders cancelling the move had not been received.
Same source had already reported earlier on 1/7 to Fliegerkorps II that IV J.G. 51 and III Stuka (1?) were to be moved forward to MINSK on 2/7, and asked for the allocation of 5 Ju. 52s to each of the Gruppen for the purpose.”

Post #212

The Bf109F-2 WNr.9558 was lost on 11-Jul-1941 while in 1./JG53.
Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VI.2, p.115; Prien, JG 53, I, p.414
Via Georg Morrison.

Regards,
Franck.