Hurricane P2701

[Alex Smart]

Hello Larry & Peter,

Larry seems to be suggesting that ALLEN was wounded and later died as a result dates unknown ? ( damage to canopy suggests hit by ground fire[?] - perhaps whilst in landing mode[?] ).

Peter has provided detail from AIR81/341 that seems to link ALLEN to the los of P2701. But that loss was on the 15th May 1940.

From my earlier post re 15th May 1940, ALLEN baled from P2828 that date and returned to his unit. ? ( Right now I forget my ref for this but it probably was FCL or FC Diaries series ).

Larry, Is it not possible that ALLEN returned to his Sqdn on the 15th only to come down later that same day (15th) in P2701 - get wounded and later on the 18th Die from the wound(s) ?
This may account for the link between ALLEN and P2701 and the 15th in AIR81/341 ?

Peter, can you check this with regard to the loss of P2828 please ?

Thanks
Alex

[Brian]

Hi guys

Just because one is born a country lad with red hair, freckles and glasses does not automatically mean he should be lampooned!!

Yes, I did write P2701, but on the advise of my late, great friend Heinrich Weiss, whose work seems to be coming in for criticism. But let me inform those who are unaware, in my opinion, Heinrich's research is comparable from the German side as that of Peter, Chris, Andy and others is from the Allied side. He/we obviously made mistakes for various reasons, mainly because we did not know otherwise.

I think it's great that we are able now to improve on previous scribblings - after all, that's what our mutual interest is all about.

Cheers and good luck

Brian

[Alex Smart]

Hello Brian,

I welcome your input.

Can you please tell the "unaware" just what Heinrich Weiss's research tells us about P2701 and ALLEN .

Many thanks
Alex
PS
My Grandson's don't wear glasses -yet

[Peter Cornwell]

lampoon /lam'pu:n/ n. & v. • n. a satirical attack on a person etc. (The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English 1995)

I plead not guilty m’lud.

[Brian]

Hi Alex and others

I'll attempt to find my old material but Peter should have copies (I gave all Heinrich's material to Peter to use for his excellent 'Battle over France' tome).

I'm off to Malta in a few hours so may not have time before we go!

I'm enjoying this post.

Cheers
Brian

[Alex Smart]

Hello Brian,

PLEASE Please Please - BRING BACK SOME WARM AND SUNNY WEATHER

Alex in a cold and windy Cornwall, no snow-yet where I am

[Alex Smart]

Hello Guy's
Out of interest I came upon this looking through the RAF Commands AIR81 lists.

Part 2-Air81/374 - P/O T.J.Edwards Missing presumed dead; Hurricane P2562 crashed at Huldenberg, Belgium 15-May-1940.

BUT in FCLv1(revised) & 12 Days in May -
P2562 - 19 May 1940 - 85 Sqn - Sgt. J. McG. Little - KIA - S/d by Me109 of I/JG2 nr Lille, 1200hrs.

FCLv1(revised) & 12 Days in May both have Edwards (87 Sqn) in P2538.

Which is the correct serial number for these two pilots?

Alex

[markjsheppard]

Hi All,

As we know the battle of France is really a nightmare with regards research. I should know as it was years of locating log books just to confirm P3351 was coded 'K' in France.

As Peter mentioned, on 13.5.40 Hurricane P2701 was issued to 85Sqn. So a few days before its loss I would expect a single letter identity which must be 'L'. (Can't remember ever seeing an 'I' as it could be confused with a 1 I suppose.

So Allen was an unknown burial was at Poix-de-Nord, near Cambrai as an unknown with only the date (18th May) as a start point but records indicate he was lost at Gembloux. Was this a confusion with the 15th May loss and not the 18th May loss?

Also two Hurricanes were lost on this 7.30am patrol on the 18th May 1940 with F/O Lepine bailing out N2425 and captured. So where was he lost? Cannot find anything more on him post war.

The seller does indicate P2701 is connected to Choisy-en-Brie and there is also a French bomber listed at the location. The seller is also selling photos from German units in Cambrai, Arras and a number of other places through France and also Belgium and then Russia. It looks like its a collection from a German soldier though unfortunately the unit (which would then lead to the units movement) is unknown which is a shame. One unit that is listed continuosly is Wehmacht unit called A.R.35.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...Reg/AR35-R.htm

Part of the 35th Infantry Division.

Still trying to establish where P2701 was lost and even who flew her.
P2701 was lost in the week between 13th issue and 20th May (withdrawal) so who and where?

regards

Mark

[Alex Smart]

Hello Mark,

From what I have read for P2701 and N2425 as both being downed in -
a)the Choisy-en-Brie area.
b) Le Cateau-Cambrai.
c) Gembloux.

Problem yet again with F/O W. N. Lepine in N2425, AIR81/550. says ftr, pow, 28 May 1940 but no a/c serial number given.

Alex

[markjsheppard]

Hi Alex,

That must be incorrect as the remains of 85Sqn (4 aircraft?) flew back to the UK on the 20th. 18th would be more more realistic than 28th and logical.

This is the problem with breaking up photo collections unless you know where they came from. You have no source so how it was photographed and in what sequence. Often the photos were in the album chronologically so there might be a picture before of after (place) to help to locate.

regards

Mark