Bär's Me 262 at Innsbruck-Hotting?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Karoband

Hi Nick,

I concur that III./EJG 2 was assimilated without authorization by JV 44 and that Bär considered himself as directly subordinate to Galland.

best regards,

Jim

None of the surviving General Quartiermeister documents I've seen records the disbandment of III./EJG 2 but a tentative timeline can be pieced together from other sources:

23 April:
Luftflotte 6 reports separate strength figures for "J.G. Baer" and "J.G. 44".

24 April:
During the afternoon, Ofw. Nitschke of 1.(F)/100 flies an operation from Lechfeld (III./EJG 2's base) but lands at Riem.
Also that afternoon, workshop staff are ordered to leave Lechfeld for Erding after Me 262s and jet engines are evacuated.
That evening Luftflotte 6 reports a combined strength for "J.G. Baer" and "J.G. 44", including 35 pupils.

25 April:
Luftflotte 6 gives an evening strength figure for "J.G. 44" only.

26 April:
Luftflotte 6 asks Luftwaffenkommando West for an immediate report on who authorised III./EJG 2's disbandment.
US 12th Armored Division seizes bridge over the River Wertach at Hiltenfingen during the evening (just over 10 km from Lechfeld).

27 April:
At 0430 (GMT+2) US units ordered to reconnoitre crossing points over the River Lech, arriving about 0830.
Since Lechfeld airfield was west of the river, presumably it was captured that morning.

[Karoband]

Hi Nick,

Thank you. That is truly a lot of detective work and it is appreciated. If I read your time line correctly, III./EJG 2 was absorbed on the 24th. For what it is worth, from Dan O'Connell, Me 262 The Production Log,, (Classic, 2005), p.217:

"25/04 Fw. Otto Kammerdiener of 10./EJG 2 transferred an EZ-42 equipped Me 262, "white 1" from Lechfeld to Riem between 20.25 and 20.40 for use by JV 44. Possibly W.Nr. 170047. [aau]" aau= Communication with Karl Rentschler

Three comments:
1. According to Robert Forsyth, Jagdverband 44 Squadron of Experten, (Osprey, 2008), p.28, Kammerdiener joined JV 44 on 11 March as an instructor from Fluglehrerschule der Luftwaffe.
2. The list of JV 44's pilots confirms Kammerdiener's immediately previous unit was "FLG.L.SCH. D. LW.".
3. It is likely Galland or Bär sent JV 44 pilots to Lechfeld to fetch intact Me 262 fighters of III./EJG 2, leaving the recce versions.

best regards,

Jim

[Revi16]

White 1 with the EZ-42, Innsbruck-Hotting.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Karoband

Hi Nick,

Thank you. That is truly a lot of detective work and it is appreciated. If I read your time line correctly, III./EJG 2 was absorbed on the 24th. For what it is worth, from Dan O'Connell, Me 262 The Production Log,, (Classic, 2005), p.217:

"25/04 Fw. Otto Kammerdiener of 10./EJG 2 transferred an EZ-42 equipped Me 262, "white 1" from Lechfeld to Riem between 20.25 and 20.40 for use by JV 44. Possibly W.Nr. 170047. [aau]" aau= Communication with Karl Rentschler

Three comments:
1. According to Robert Forsyth, Jagdverband 44 Squadron of Experten, (Osprey, 2008), p.28, Kammerdiener joined JV 44 on 11 March as an instructor from Fluglehrerschule der Luftwaffe.
2. The list of JV 44's pilots confirms Kammerdiener's immediately previous unit was "FLG.L.SCH. D. LW.".
3. It is likely Galland or Bär sent JV 44 pilots to Lechfeld to fetch intact Me 262 fighters of III./EJG 2, leaving the recce versions.

best regards,

Jim

Thanks. I think it's fairly certain that the machines evacuated from Lechfeld were all in München-Riem by nightfall on the 24th (sunset in Lechfeld on 24 April would be at 20.20 German Summer Time) and were either absorbed then or the next day.

Here's a couple more things I should have included in my chronology:

26 April:
The list of aircraft with JV 44 includes W.Nr. 111718 and 111748, both described as »Ruckführ-Flugzeug Lechfeld« (aircraft brought back from Lechfeld) and W.Nr. 111899 »Lechfeld-Messerschmidt« [sic]

A list of unit locations sent from 7. Jagd.Div. to Luftflotte 6 places JV 44 at Riem but does not mention III./EJG 2.

27 April:
The list of pilots with JV 44 sent to Lfl. 6 by Hptm. Gutowski includes nine from III./EJG 2 and one from II./EJG 2, adding that "JV 44 did not take over any photo-Me 262's".

[Karoband]

Originally Posted by Revi16

White 1 with the EZ-42, Innsbruck-Hotting.

Good eye, Revi16. Thank you!

[Matolion]

No Innsbruck-Hotting, but it was Innsbruck-Reichenau. W.Nr.170047, White 1 landed there by mistake together with W.Nr.500492, White 8. The other Me 262s landed at Innsbruck-Hotting as planned

[Karoband]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

I don't know whether the status of III./EJG 2 had anything to do with where the number was placed, or whether the nose section was simply the largest available space on a new type of aircraft. The practice began with Erprobungskommando 262 and continued after it was renamed III./EJG 2. The same thing was done by 1./NAGr. 1 on its Me 262s and the reconnaissance machines found at Lechfeld (see my article in Axis Wings Vol. 2, October 2024).

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1680

Hi Nick,

Wow! I just got my copy of Axis Wings, Volume 2. The scholarship of your article "Me 262 Reconnaissance Operations, 1944-45" and the quality of the accompanying photographs are both outstanding. I see what you mean about the placement of the numerals on these aircraft. For what it is worth, the very recent availability in the posting of a good resolution still of "white 3" by Kurmark-Antik, to my eye shows the final three digits to be "523".
Also, if I am reading it correctly, the order for the disbanding of III./EJG 2 can be found in RL 2-III/69 pp. 0179-0180. If so, you were correct and there was no "JG Baer".
Thank you, again.

Jim

[David E. Brown]

Jim,

From analysis of photos, documents and some deductive reasoning I have the following Me 262s at Innbruck-Hötting and Innsbruck-Reichenau:

Innsbruck-Hötting (16)
?????? – White 4 (JV 44)
?????? – uncoded
110766 – Red 1 (Aus.Kdo.II./KG(J) 54, ex-I./KG 51)
111712 – uncoded (DLH)
111733 – White 12 (JV 44)
111751 – uncoded (JV 44)
111857 – uncoded (JV 44)
112317 – uncoded (DLH)
113357 – uncoded (JV 44)
113369 – uncoded (DLH)
113371 – uncoded (DLH)
500??? – uncoded
500??? – White 13 (JV 44)
500490 – uncoded (DLH)
500521 – uncoded (DLH)
500524 – uncoded (DLH)

Innsbruck-Reichenau (2)
170047 – White 1 S (JV 44, ex-III./EJG 2)
500492 – White 8 S (2./Fl.Ü.G. 1, ex-III./EJG 2)

Best,

David

[Karoband]

Hi David,

Thank you! Using your criteria, this is what I have:

Innsbruck- Hotting (23)

A) Along the Kranebitter Allee (west to east):
1. 500490 - uncoded (DLH)
2. 111857 - uncoded (JV 44) (overpainted red 13? ex. III/EJG 2?)
3. 500524 - uncoded (DLH)
4. 110766 - red 1 (JV 44) (ex. E.Schwarm Me 262 G.d.S. attached to 2./KG 51)
5. 111730? - white 12 (JV 44) (ex. E.Schwarm Me 262 G.d.S. attached to 2./KG 51?)
6. 111751 - uncoded (JV 44)

B) In northwest meadow near the "dilapidated barn" (east to west):
7. 11???? (112360?) uncoded - (DLH)
8. 113371 - unpainted (DLH)

C) Furthest west from runway (north to south):
9. ?????? - ?
10. ?????? - ? (one of these may be Galland's double chevron per Haase's flugbuch)
11. ?????? - ?

D) In the curve of the south-west corner (north-west to south-east):
12. 111712 - unpainted (DLH)
13. 170 061? - white 4 (JV 44) (ex. III/EJG III?)
14. 500??? (500529?) - uncoded (DLH)
15. 500228 - 9K+CN red C (Landau) (ex. II/KG 51)
16. 500??? (500389?) - uncoded (DLH)
17. 11???? (113334?) - uncoded (JV 44)
18. 500??? (500493?) - uncoded (DLH)

E). Adjacent to the "farm house" (north-west to south-east):
19. 113357 - uncoded (DLH)
20. ?????? - ?

F). Along the south river road near the shed with the Ju 87 beside it (west to east):
21. 130183 - 9K+EL (Straubing) (ex. I./KG 51)
22. 113??? (113368?) - white 13 (JV 44)
23. 113369 - uncoded (DLH)

Innsbruck- Reichenau (2)

1. 170047 - white 1 S (ex. III./EJG 2, JV 44 to Brunnthal)
2. 500492 - white 8 S (ex. III./EJG 2, JV 44? to Brunnthal)

best regards,

Jim