What is a 109 G14 without MW 50?

[George Hopp]

BTW: Thanks for the info on the division into different subtypes of G-14 ! Do you also have this for other factories?

Sorry, Yogybar, but even this one I found only by accident.

My vote would be for a standard G-14 but intended for some mission-dedicated model, e.g. photo-reconn (G-14/R2) where the MW tank might hinder access to a large camera.

Hal

The camera on the 109 strategic recce aircraft was directly behind the fuselage fuel tank, and ahead of any MW-50 tank. And since access to the camera was through the rear of the cockpit, the MW tank would not have reduced access to the camera.

...which of course would make it a regular G6...unless of course these 200 or so "G-14" birds were to have the most advanced features not common to all G6 (bigger rudder, longer tail wheel strut, erla haube, etc.)

Didn't the G-6 also get the bigger rudder, longer tail wheel strut, Erla haube, etc.

Slightly off topic, here are a couple of photos, from Prien's JG 1 and 11, Volume 2, Page 1081, of the first G-14 captured. As I said at the beginning of this thread, the early G-14s were simply upgraded G-6s; and you'll notice that Prien calls the aircraft a G-6, but the RAF got the type off the manufacturer's plaque that showed it to be a G-14. And it still has the G-6's short strut tail wheel and small rudder, and I think it had an Erla haube, although it was not recovered.

[yogybär]

Originally Posted by Harold Lake

...The AM engine required C3 fuel whereas the standard A-engine used B4 aviation fuel...

Are you sure? I thought only the DB605AS-engines needed C3...

Apart from that, my personal feeling is that there were dozens of different versions of any subseries of the G (and K).
Imagine the situation in the factory: They surely used up i.e. stocks of "old" tailwheels for the G-10, although the G-10 was meant to have the "new" high tailwheel... similar is valid for the rudder and other components as long as there is no incompatibility.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by George Hopp

... the RAF got the type off the manufacturer's plaque that showed it to be a G-14.

Good point! I suspect that the answer to the original question might be "whatever it said on the plate" or "whatever Messerschmitt sold it as." Alternatively: "whatever the RLM signed for the delivery of."

[Harold Lake]

Yogybar,

[quote=yogybär;71078]Are you sure? I thought only the DB605AS-engines needed C3...]


According to DB engine specs, the standard "AS" took B4 whereas the "ASM" used C3...

Hal

[Kurfürst]

Late '44 G-14 notes that B-4 can be used, too, but only if water-injection is used at the same time at max output, otherwise engine damage shall occur.

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by George Hopp

Slightly off topic, here are a couple of photos, from Prien's JG 1 and 11, Volume 2, Page 1081, of the first G-14 captured. As I said at the beginning of this thread, the early G-14s were simply upgraded G-6s; and you'll notice that Prien calls the aircraft a G-6, but the RAF got the type off the manufacturer's plaque that showed it to be a G-14. And it still has the G-6's short strut tail wheel and small rudder, and I think it had an Erla haube, although it was not recovered.

Prien calls the a/c a G-6 because the loss was reported as G-6 IIRC and the producer - Erla Leipzig - the a/c sold as G-6. The first designation of the G-14's was "G-6 MW 50".

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[Mermet]

In a Messerschmitt's document I got in 1991, the Bf 109 G-14 is described as "a G-6 with MW propelled by the compressed air from the engine."
This description is confusing, because the G-6/R2 (recce version) had already the MW propelled by the compressed air from the engine...
Several G-6/U2s, produced exclusively by Erla, had the GM-1 device modified into the MW 50. In this case the compressed air was delivered from bottles under a pressure of 135 to 150 atm.
It could have been possible, the "G-14s w/o MW 50" were in fact G-6/U2 modified into G-6/MW 50... the MW being in this case more a device than the methanol itself...

Jicéhem

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

For whatever it is worth.

In July, 1944 Finnish Air Force received one Bf 109 G-6 which had MW-50 tank installed in fuselage. The plane was returned to back - German ferry pilot brought "normal" Bf 109 G-6 substitute and flew the other one back. This is apparently the only Bf 109G-6 flown to FinnAF by Germans. Others were ferried by Finnish pilots.

What makes the case interesting is that there might be original paperwork archived for the returned Bf 109 with MW. Perhaps the document would say something about the subtype? I have not searched for those papers but know one person who has.


Cheers,
Kari

[George Hopp]

I would certainly be interested in any information you are able to find on that particular aircraft, Kari. Good luck with finding it.
All the best,
George

[George Hopp]

I am now able to provide the page I quoted at the start of this thread, and in case the page is too difficult to read, I have also provided a detail about the planned production of the G-14 with, and without, MW50.
Hope this helps,
George